Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Can anyone with some experience with the Gen.Qu. files answer me if they contain information about gliederungen or other information related to Flak-units?

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

I am very familiar with all of the Flak and Flak-related documentation that survived the war and is currently at BA-MA Freiburg and/or on NARA microfilm or on IWM microfilm. But I do not understand your question. What exactly are you looking for? Also, have you tried using SEARCH on this web site, on AHF and on WAF? I have answered questions on where to find information on the Flakwaffe numerous times since about 2001, so you might find an old thread that would prove helpful to you.

L.

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

I'm researching the heavy and light Flak units around Kristiansand, Norway.

Therefore I was wondering if the Qm. recorded information about the constant reorganisations of the Flak-units and distrubution of Flak-guns (in Norway) I have certain holes in this structure on Flakabteilung-level from mid-1941 to summer 1944. (The responsibilty of the heavy Flak around Kristiansand was turned over to the Marflak.abt. 714 during Fall of 1944)

Yes, i saw the lengthy disussion about Flak on this board earlier and on AHF there are some 3500++ discussions regarding FlaK. I have also seen the various online lists as http://www.gyges.dk/barl001.pdf. I'm just trying to find alternative ways to seek more information about Flak-units, so it's great to get some input from others that have experience with LW-files in either IWM, BAMA or NARA :-)

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

The Gen.Qu. due include casualties from the LW ground forces, though I suspect hardly complete. From my recollection they also tend to leave out names, only the numbers of men lost, with the exception of officers where you might get a name. No material, i.e. flak guns, info included either.

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Hallo Tormod,

I presume you have seen the Norway during WW2 website and especially the Festung Norwegen section which covers all types of AA and coastal artillery. They have a discussion board also.
Sorry but I cannot manage to post a direct link for the above.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Tormod -

The Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen microfilms/microfiche do have the personnel losses for Flakartillerie personnel from Sep 39 to the end of Jun 43. After that date the losses of Bodenorganisation, Flak and Ln. personnel were transferred to a separate report which has not been found.

BA-MA Freiburg Signatur RL 5 includes 506 folders (c. 11 linear meters) of voluminous Flak-Abschüßmeldungen that includes material on the location, strength and subordination relationship of the Flak formations.

BA-MA Freiburg Signatur RL 40/41 includes the Flakkarte showing the distribution of Flak forces from 1 Nov 43 to Dec 44. There are also a few stray Kriegsgliederung charts for the period prior to Nov 43.

That’s the good news. Now for the bad news. If you are looking for precise day-by-day movement orders for the Flak in Norway from April 1940 to May 1945, I do not think you will find it. The shifting of a Batterie from here to there was made at theater level and those records for Norway are very incomplete.

Finally, have you checked with others Norwegian researchers about this? The Norwegians have examined the Luftwaffe in Norway exhaustively and some of them may be able to give you more precise information concerning your country.

L.

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

A bit late reply here:

@Martin: Yes, I know about the NUAV page, the problem is that covers the status quo pr. may 1945, I was more looking for the mid war (1941-43) organisation.

@Larry: Thanks for the hints for where to look! Specially for the RL 40/40. Is there a own section covering Norway in this signature?

I have gathered some info about the early and late Flak from various Heer Kampfweisungen and some Kriegsmarine records, but haven't looked through the Luftflottenkommando 5 files yet.

All of the norwegian researchers says the same thing about Flak: difficult ;-)

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

There are at least some Flak Kriegsgliederung charts in RL 40 for the Luftflotte 5 area, but I do not know how many.

Good luck!

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Hehe....

Flak isn't THAT difficult... we just haven't bothered ;-)

To be a bit more serious - there are som many holes to fill, and just to little time... so I think the answer is rather that most researchers in Norway (I am not including the concrete crazy guys) have been more into the flying units of the Luftwaffe and spent less time on the ground based units like Flak, Bau, Felddivs etc.

Regards,
Andreas

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Careful what you call crazy in this hobby, when you know that every one of us on this board shares a fascination for some seriously outdated military hardware ;-D

The Luftwaffe ground organisation (at least in Norway) isn't the easiest thing to follow, I have found out that Luftwaffe, Heer and even the BdO (Police) had their own seperate FluWa orgnanisations. It must have been a nightmare to try to gather all of these units in to a functional warning system.

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Tormod -

Here is a rough and very incomplete outline of information I was able to extract from the many Wehrmacht documents from various commands (mostly Heer) in Norway 1940-45:

Kjevik (NOR) (a.k.a. Kristiansand-South?) (58 12 N – 08 05 E)
General: airfield 8 km NE of Kristiansand in S Norway. A civil airport since 1 June 1939 with a 1,000 meter concrete runway. The Luftwaffe lengthened it to 1,600 x 78 meters during the war. Used mainly by fighters. Ration strength 1 Mar 43: 171 Boden, 88 Ln., 173 Flak, 81 Wehrmachtgefolge.
Air Units: (see web site ww2.dk).
School Units: (none).
Erg./Ers. Units: Erg.St. IV.(Stuka)/LG 1 (Jan – May 41);
Station Commands: Fl.H.Kdtr. E 43/III (1940-41)?; Fl.H.Kdtr. A 203/III (Nov 42 – Mar 44); Fl.H.Kdtr. E(v) 202/III (Apr 44 – 1945).
Other: I./Flak-Rgt. 611; Flakwaffen-Werkstatt 9/III; Ldssch.Kp.d.Lw. 5/III; Ldssch.Zug d.Lw. 83/III; Ldssch.Zug d.Lw. 62/IV; Nachschub-Kol.Abt.d.Lw. 6/III; Trsp.Kol.d.Lw. 41/III; Trsp.Kol.d.Lw. 42/III; Trsp.Kol.d.Lw. 48/III; Trsp.Kol.d.Lw. 143/III; mittl.Flugbetriebsstoff-Kol. 502/VIII.


As you can see, there was very little Flak in the Kristiansand area in March 1943 - about one Batterie, I would guess. But units came and went continually, so it is very, very difficult if not impossible to identify all of them. You have a real job ahead of you. :)

Larry

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Are we talking Luftwaffe flak or naval flak ?? Or even Heeresflak ?

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Hi Larry,

thanks for the list :) I have some additions to it regarding the FlaK.
If you should got any comments or corrections to it, please let me know.

All of the FlaK units in this part of the land were coordinated under Flakuntergruppe Kristiansand - Lister (est. ca summer of 1940)

Parts of Flak-reg. 611. arrived in april 1940 and was first used as harbour defence then moved to Kjevik in june, somewhere around december 1940, the battery was moved back to the harbour. Probably there were no further permanent 8,8 cm batteri stationed direct at Kjevik. The Kampfweisung from the local 214. Inf-div shows a 2 cm light and a medium 7,5 cm battery stationed at Kjevik around 1941. Around the same time on the other side of the Topdalsfjord at Kjevik, a heavy Flak battery was established at Justnes (611.??). There were probably at least eight different sites for heavy Flak around Kristiansand, but not all were of course occupied during the same time. many eyewitnesses talks about dummy guns or empty battery sites.

Between 1941 and early 1944 I don't have any kind of maps nor location-named (from the german side of view) placements of units. In March 1944 Flakregiment 641 (v) moves in from Finland and takes part of the Airfield defence, this unit was later renamed to 569. (v) (?) and finished the war manning the light Flak around Kristiansand. For the Heavy Flak, the situation was somehwat different; in late 1944, several new 8,8 batteries were added and laid under the administration of Mar.FlaK 714 as dual purpouse batteries.

In addition to the "pure" Marineflak batteries, you also got a 8,8 cm Alarm-Flak battery at the Batterie Vara (38 cm). This battery was probably operated by Kriegsmarine personell from the Fortress. In addition you also had some Heeresflak units as "Leichte Flak-Zug Gimlemoen".

Do you have a source for the march 1943 ration strenght?

regards,
Tormod

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Tormod -

The strength figures for March 1943 came from a Luftwaffe document that gave these figures for most of the bases in Norway. For example, the ration strength on 1 Mar 43 for Stavanger-Sola/Land was: 269 Boden, 67 Ln., 582 Flak, 200 Wehrmachtgefolge. To search my 100+ boxes of documents for this one would take me several days and I just do not have the time right now. But here are some Flak source citations for you:

Sources noted are all from U.S. NARA Record Group 242, Microcopy T-77, T-321, T-971, etc. The number following the “/” is the frame number.

I./Flak-Rgt. 611:
Apr 40 – Feb 45: Kristiansand (T-971 roll 60; T-321 roll 30; T-77; T-321 roll 50/286; T-312 roll 1070/289).

gem.Flak-Abt. 641(v)
Jun 43: transferred from Kemi/Finland to Kristiansand and still there May 44 (RG 226/PWIS XL10731).
May 44: all or elements now protecting the mine complex at Knaben/Norway (ULTRA intercept KV3301).
1944-45: returned to Germany and sent to East Prussia (Tessin).

gem.Flak-Abt. 569(v)
Formed about March 1944 (Tessin).
2 May 44: at Sauda (NNE of Stavanger) under Flak-Rgt. 92 (ULTRA KV3301).
Feb 45: Stavanger under 29. Flak-Div. (Tessin).

Also see: http://www.ww2.dk/

Larry

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

@ Tormod

Do you have the TESSIN publication? You can find there very useful infos

Re: Luftwaffe Quartermaster files and FlaK
 

Thanks again Larry, that covered some more holes! In the Ia files to LXX armeekorps in march 1944 there is a note saying that "16 schweren geschütze" are transfered to the defence of Knaben.

byron-: Tessin are on my "must buy"-list, but sadly also a lot of KTB's....I need to get the right numbers in Lotto in one day ;-)