Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Hi guys


On 24 April 1940, a Bf110 of 3./ZG76 force-landed on Lake Upmasajaure. The crew was rescued by a He59. Names and information required, please.

On 2 June 1940, a Ju87 and a Ju52 were both shot down by AA guns mounted on a train, or trains. Were these two separate incidents. Any details would be appreciated.

On 6 June 1940, a Ju52 crashed near Hogdal. Ltn Sperber and crew. From which unit was this aircraft?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Well Brian

The Bf 110 incident was on May 24th, 1940
Bf 110D-0 WNr 3154 NO+DS of 2./ZG 76 crew Fw Neurieter (F) and Stabsing. Thönes (B) and probably damaged in a combat with British Gladiators. The crew was rescued by He 59 D.ALYO from Seenotflugkommando 1 in Trondheim, led by Lt Wölke.
The incident was unknown during the war from the Swedish side and research as to what had happened did not start until the wreck was discovered in 1946.

2 June 1940
Ju 87B-2 WNr 87207 A5+IL 3./St.G 1 crewed by Fw Hans Ott(F) and Lt Günther Brack (B) shot down by AA machine gun from an armoured train. Forcelanded 14.19H 3 km east-north-east Abisko

Ju 52/3m WNr 6751 DC+SP 1./KGrzbV.106 shot down by Swedish AA fire 14.31H and very close to the Swedish/Norwegian border. Possibly from the same train as the one above.
Crew: Uffz Hans Töchler (F), Gefr Kramer (Bf) killed, Fw Franz Reichard (Bm), + 12 paratroopers: Ofw Haase (killed), Uffz Gustav Mank, Fw Walter Himmrich or Himmerich, Ufw Hermann Bansen, Hans Vorsteffel (killed), Arno Wolf, Werner Fischer (killed), Franz Langfeld (killed), Konrad Hof (killed), Walter Schnitzer (killed), Bodo Westkamp (killed), Ogefr Adolf Koch.

6 June 1940
Ju 52/3m WNr 6754 xx+Rx 2.Kp/FFS (C) 1 crewed by: Uffz Otto Reissner, Uffz Willi Riemann, Fw Ludwig Seipp, Lt Walter Sperber, all killed, shot down by a gunboat model 41 "Skagerack" and its 40 mm Bofors AA-gun m/36. Aircraft crashed on fire and was totally destroyed.

Best Regards
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

The Bf 110 incident has been subject to much discussion on this site

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Stig,

I’m having difficulties with the casualties you have posted in relation to the Ju52/3m loss on June 2, 1940, as I cannot find many of them listed in the VDK database. Any further clarification you can offer will be much appreciated.

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Stig,

This W.Nr. caught my eye and likely is not correct. According to my notes, other aircraft around that number, it possibly could be Ju 87 B-1 W.Nr. 0870207 and "produced" at FZB (Bernburg) in about October 1938. If so there is photo of it (in some magazine) of it wearing only large number "207" on fuselage. What is your source for the incident?

(7207 is not valid number for Ju 87)

Best regards
ed

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Peter/Ed

I should of course have listed my source(s) for my reply. As far as I know there has been three published histories of Axis/allied forcelandings in Sweden. If we concentrate us on the German side, the first one as in Sweden and called Haven of Refuge. In this publication the ID of the Ju 87 was still unknown. The second book was published by Monogram in 1983, The Luftwaffe in Sweden 1939-45. In that one the Ju 87 is still listed as unknown. Finally in 2007 the book Tyska Nödlandare 1939-45 was published. It is in this one that WNr 87207 is stated.

With regard to the crew and paratroopers onboard the Ju 52 nothing is listed in the first publication, but both the second and third has the names listed. I have at this stage not checked the 1983 and 2007 issues name by name, since I only quoted the 2007 book.

The author Bo Widfeldt is well known in Sweden and I know him fairley well so I can check his sources if anyone is interested.

Peter
Excuse my ignorance, but please explain what VDK database is. I probably should know, but....:o

Cheers
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Thanks Peter

Yes I have heard about the site before. My own interest does not go that far I'm afraid, so your shorthand did not ring any bell....:o

Before I call Bi can you give me, either a personal e-mail, or a resume of which names you cannot locate?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Ed/Peter

The information listed by Bo Widfeldt are ALL taken from the Swedish War Archives. The Ju 87B-2 was taken to Linkoping (Malmen) and examined, and this examination document has been located. The WNr is taken from said paper. Likewise all paratroopers names are taken from the report of the Ju 52/3m incident. All are quoted in verbatim as listed.

I also inquired about the VDK problem and Bo replied that he had been trying to contact them, but they never bothered to answer any of his letters. Most research was made on site in the Swedish War Archives during a 30 year period. Since this also ment having clearance to look into still secret files, Bo Widfeldt has handed over all his research to said organization, and it can be located under his name at site.

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Thanks Stig. I will make note of this.

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Thank you Stig.

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Hi Ed and Peter

I have received a photo of the plate found on the Ju 87.
I have tried to attach the photo here, but to do so does not work as per principles known by me.

If any of you want to see it, please send me a private e-mail with your own regular e-mail and I will send over the photo as an attachment

Cheers
Stig

PS: No idea how the plate became attached, but obviously I must have done something right...

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Stig,

Many thanks for posting that image. I will be most interested to learn if any of our experts can positively confirm that this does in fact show the actual Werk Nummer as I have a similar plate from a Ju87B down in this country where the serial is so far unrecorded. Thanks again.

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

From examples in my collection, these data plates do not hold the W.Nr of the specific aerolanes they originate from.

The B&W image is from 5518 lost on 18 August.

The colour one is from 5618 lost on 16 August.

None of the numbers bear any relation to the W.Nr although the example from 5518 has that number painted on the adjacent airframe section and can just be seen on the left hand side.

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Many thanks Andy - just as I thought.

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Stig / Andy.

Thank you both - It seems however that version (Ju 87 B-2) could be correct.

Plate from Sweden does not show W.Nr. - The 8-87.207 is Part Drawing Number - Weser built Ju 87 B-´s starting at 5070 and these running to about 7070 in late 1941. The Serie number (in field abowe) might give clues but I have not "de-coded" the Ju 87 part plate numbers.

Problem here is I do not have (enough) details on which factory made each in late 1939 or early 1940 period - WFG Bremen or WFG Tempelhof - or both - but construction month of the Swedish example (as an early one) gives possiblility of Ju 87 B-2 (i.e. 5521 known lost elsewhere as Ju 87 B-2).

I have made notes of all these plates and propose doing some more (better) calculations at a later date (as many details still lie schattered amongst my files and need tidying up!) All I can say now, W.Nr. of the Swedish example could lie somewhere near 5525.

I welcome also if some other members could help clear this issue.

Best regards
ed

Re: Luftwaffe aircraft down in Sweden 1940
 

Ed / Andy

Thanks a lot. I will send Bo Widfeldt your answer.

Cheers
Stig