Hurricane P3533
 

Hurricane P3533 had been alocated to 46 Squadron during 1940, but evidently did not reach that squadron before they withdrew from Norway. Instead, it seems to have been "diverted" to another squadron operating in France where it was evidently lost during May 1940.

I have attached a photograph of one of the ejector chutes recovered from a crash site in France which would seem to indicate the crash location of P3533. The pilot was evidently killed in the crash.

I am not currently at liberty to identify the crash location, but I am hopeful that someone might be able to attribute P3533 to a specific squadron. Obviously, it is not 46 Squadron and the AM Form 78 failed to specify the alternative squadron to which it was obviously issued.

Can anyone help?

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

According to Franks... Royal Air Force Fighter Command Losses of the Second World War: it was with 145 Sqn...

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Paul

Many thanks, but......

A scan of Norman's list has not thrown anything up. A second closer look threw up nothing, either. Am I missing something?

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Andy

My books are in storage but if you put "Hurricane P3533" in google books you get a hit on


Royal Air Force Fighter Command Losses of the Second World War: Operational ...‎ - Page 28
Norman L. R. Franks - History - 1997 - 167 pages

Then using a 'tickling technique' on google books you can get reveal the rest of the line which is

"145 Sqn N2601, N2605 P3279, P3300, P3418, P3455, P3532, P3533"

Which I assume is a list of 'other losses'..

Of course it could be a scanning error (you can't see the original)

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Paul

Thanks!

Norman's revised edition has P3535 on page 28. This was 607 Squadron, so unless a transcription error somedwhere along the line then I think we can probably rule that out. An interesting possibility might be a clerical error with 607 Sqn, and this was in fact P3533 and not P3535? If P3535 was incorrectly recorded and should have been P3533 then it might make some sense. That aircraft was evidently shot down over Cambrai (certainly the right area) but apparently crashed at Bachy, some long way from this particular crash site. Unless, of course, it was this crash and the pilot was buried at Bachy? However, that might all be a far too simplistic and convenient "explanation" for the P3533 mystery.

Peter Cornwell might like to comment?

PS - Having now looked at Norman Franks' first edition as an afterthought, page 28 does list P3533 but simply as unallocated and lost in France. He does not attribute it to 145 Squadron.

The mystery endures....

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

"The pilot was evidently killed in the crash."

May this give a clue.. Any idea who he was?? He may have been buried locally or still listed as missing? There can't be that many pilots mysteries left after 70 years.. So by the process of elimination....

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Paul,

Regretably, there are more unresolved mysteries of this kind than you would imagine - such is the nature of wartime casualties I guess. And if this pilot/aircraft could have been identified by simple PoE then it would certainly have been resolved by the MREU immediately postwar or by some duffer like myself latterly. However, I am minded that the responsible authorities are not overkeen on accepting just PoE - hence Andy's question.

Andy,

For reasons that you will appreciate all too well, I will resist adding any further speculation. But it is really frustrating that the only tangible piece of 'evidence' from the dig itself has thus far proved of limited value due, largely, to the absence of reliable records. Pity that crater was clinically sterile of further clues.

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

An interesting possibility might be a clerical error with 607 Sqn, and this was in fact P3533 and not P3535? If P3535 was incorrectly recorded and should have been P3533 then it might make some sense.
There was no clerical error on 607 Squadron regarding P3535 AF-C. It is recorded by no less than five 607 Squadron pilots as flown by them during this period. Will Gore, Francis Blackadder, Peter Parrott, Bobby Pumphrey and the unfortunate George Fidler who was shot down in it.

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Paul & Peter

Thank you both for your input.

We cannot be certain, but there is a high probability that this aircraft was P3533 in view of the discovered evidence - despite several red-herrings along the way over the past three years! The problem is, as Peter is aware, we cannot (yet) link P3533 to a squadron. Neither can we link it to a pilot whom we know to have died in the crash. We strongly suspect the crash to have been May or June 1940. That is about the extent of our knowledge on this case!

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Could not have P3533 and P3535 been on same Sqn???

I suppose a burial at Cambrai can't be discounted?

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Paul

The problem is that we do not know what squadron P3533 ended up with and I suppose that 607 Squadron is a possibility even if it is not on record as being with that squadron. It certainly cannot be 46 Squadron.

As to a Cambrai burial, that is possible. Indeed, I suppose there are three possibilities in this case:

a) he (whoever he is) is still "missing" and unburied
b) he is buried in a CWGC plot as an unknown RAF airman
c) he is buried in a CWGC plot as a named casualty

All I can say is that the aeroplane believed to be P3533 certainly involved the death of its pilot. Loosely, it is in the Cambrai district. We believe that it was most likely lost there in May or early June 1940.

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Air Britian Serials has

P3533 Combined Forces in France (CFF) /46, Lost in France 5.40

Which implies it was going to be allocated to 46 Sqn from a holding unit within France. However we know 46 Sqn was never based in France. It was at RAF Digby then went to Norway in May 1940.. So why would an aircraft be brought back from France and allocated rather than use an aircraft already in the UK.. Unless there were plans to send 46 to France which got abandoned (outside my general knowledge base)... In that case I wonder if the 46 is a typo for another French based Hurricane unit. I have not got my Air Britain serials books to hand (and won't for a long time as I have just moved house and they are in storage) however if any one has access to them what are the other Sqn allocations from CCF? Are there anymore that say 46 Sqn ?

Just a thought..

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Paul

My belief was that this aircraft was initially earmarked for 46 Squadron (then in Norway) but was simply not sent there because of the withdrawal from Norway. Instead, it was sent to France for one of the squadrons there although there was no specific end-user squadron detailed on the AM 78 apart from CFF. Knowing which squadron operated it would certainly draw us closer to the date of loss and the identity of its pilot.

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Andy so the AM 78 order says 46 then CFF not CFF then 46?....

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

Not sure! I am waiting for a copy of the actual card. I am not aware that there was ever an intention to send 46 to France from Norway, although if there was then obviously that plan foundered with the loss of HMS Glorious. I cannot imagine there would have been an intention to re-deploy 46 Sqn to another operational theatre straight out of Norway though.

Re: Hurricane P3533
 

AB usually quote in order of allocation so I would assume CFF then 46 .....

I think L2060 was also allocated CFF (but actually lost 615 Sqn on 20th May 1940)