Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Hi all

Does anyone have anymore information ie werknumber, fuselage code, Pic? (longshot but someone may have found an Ebay pic)

Bf109E-7
Oberleutnant K.Saur
2.JG52
Shot down by RAF fighters 12/10/40. Crashed at Chantry Farm, Hollingbourne, Kent. Saur baled out slightly injured and was captured.

Thanks for your time.

Clint

Oberleutnant Kurt Saur
 

Hello Clint

12 October 1940: Bf 109 E-7 "Black <I" (W.Nr. 4132) flown by Oberleutnant Kurt Saur of 2./JG 52, wounded in aerial combat in the London area and bailed out, crashed near Hollingbourne, POW, 100%

I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Wonderful Leo!:)

Now just waiting on the photo.:D

Thanks

Clint

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Your word is my command.

Picture emailed 2 mins ago.:D

Thanks to Leo I was able to identify a photo in my unknown section.

Cheers Leo!

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Chris you are the man, I've got a little piece of this plane. Nice to know what it looks like at last.

Just a question: The information accompanying the little piece of metal I have has the JG52 emblem but also the circular emblem with the cheeky little red devil holding a bow and arrow. Wrong I presume from the photo of the aircraft you mailed me which is sporting the JG52 emblem and also the wild boar emblem.

Edit: Just realised the running boar is the emblem of I./JG52.:o
Thanks again

Clint

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Hi Chris

I'm not quite sure about this photo to be honest? I've given it some thought and the photo shows a quite intact belly landed 109 (Black <1) from 2./JG52. But from what I understand the pilot baled out and I would expect the plane to have not landed quite so nicely. Also the small piece of metal I got from Geoff Nutkins at the Shoreham Aircraft Museum which they excavated would lead me to believe that the aircraft disintegrated on impact. Also Leo pointed out that this aircraft was (Black <I) not (Black <1). Does anyone have any more info, could this be a mix up with the recorded fuselage codes? You might have a different crash altogether Chris? It certainly looks like British soldiers clambering all over the plane with onlookers. Shame I was kinda chuffed with the photo.

Cheers

Clint

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Certainly the aircraft in question dived into the ground and was deeply buried on impact. However, the location of "Chantry Farm" is somewhat suspect as no such farm name exists there or has ever existed there. I do know the location of the crash, although for what its worth it certainly isn't at a place called Chantry Farm despite the Air Intelligence report.

The crash site was excavated some years ago.

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Hi Andy

I've managed to find a listing for Chantry Farm in Headcorn (not far from Hollingbourne, both are in Maidstone) on the Kent Archaeological Society's website. http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Re...N/A/01/01C.htm

It was found on a List of place names from the 6 inch O.S. Maps of Kent (revised 1905/08) with the map reference of 175?

So it existed in 1908 just not anymore? I wonder if maybe an older onlooker at the time may have given the location of Chantry Farm to the RAF officers who filled out the report?

Edit: Albeit just checked Google Maps and Headcorn is still quite some distance from Hollingbourne confusing? What area do you know as being the crash site if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks:)

Clint

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Gentlemen, sorry to confuse.

I found this photo, owned by Denes Bernad, hoping that if he reads this he could help us with more details.

Regards

Chris

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

But what one is in your pic Chris? Looks to be in the UK!

Cheers:)

Clint

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Hi Clint

I fear that the first picture I sent you was not taken in the UK. Note the 'Y' strap on the uniformed figure in the foreground, only the Wehrmacht used such a device, British soldiers used braces style webbing. Also the two on the wing are wearing jackboots someting no respecting tommy would have worn.

So not only was this the wrong aircraft but in the wrong place!!

Chris

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

At least you tried Chris! Cheers mate.

Clint

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Was Oberleutnant Kurt Saur the Geschwader Adjutant for JG52?

Thanks

Clint

Geschwaderadjutant of JG 52
 

Hello Clint

According to Prien, the Geschwaderadjutant of JG 52 from 1 December 1939 through 31 July 1942 was Hauptmann Walter Kirschstein. I hope this helps.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Thanks Leo

It appears that Kurt Sauer's 109 is still in hiding, for now.

Thanks for your time.

Clint

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Hi Leo, was Oberleutnant Kurt Saur in the Stab swarm at all?

Regards

Clint

Oberleutnant Kurt Saur
 

Hello Clint

Honestly I have no idea if he was at any time a member of the Stabsschwarm of JG 52. He does not appear on the list of Commanding Posts of JG 52 and from the loss list information was officially a member of 2./JG 52 at the time of his loss. Perhaps he was simply flying a machine of the Geschwaderstab when shot down. I wish I could have been of more help but perhaps someone else can add more.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Bf109E-7 loss 12/10/40 Hollingbourne, Kent
 

Thanks for your reply Leo, You've helped more than enough so thankyou!:) I suppose it's a possibility that he was flying the Geschwaderadjutant's aircraft on this date. Either that or perhaps the I.D of the plane (Black<I) could be wrong? Lets hope we have some developments.

Thanks again for your time.

Clint