Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Can anyone help me with the German raider which hit Petworth Boys School on the 29th September 1942.

I've got everything I need from the schools perspective but all I have is that it was a lone Ju 88, painted black with a red swastika on the tail, flying low on a course to take it directly over Petworth House. When the bombs were released, they just missed the house, hit the trees in the grounds, one of which then ricocheted into the school which completely destroyed it.

I know nothing else about the aircraft but am after as much as I can get, or even a pointer in the right direction as to where to look.

Can anyone help?

Cheers,

N

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

This is well known but the expert on such things, Andy Saunders, I believe has failed to identify the unit responsible. However, I would take 'painted black with a red swastika' with a pinch of salt

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

I take it you have read this site :-http://www.gravelroots.net/petworth/12.html as Chris says the red swastika is suspect. The history of KG6 'Wir flogen gen Weten ' states a few Ju88's of I/KG6 took off from Creil at 1030 hrs on a nuisance raid to towns on the English South Coast. It shows that 3E+DH flown by an Oblt. Faulhaber landed at Creil at 1220 hrs, if the school was attacked in that time scale KG6 with its Ju88's would be a strong suspect.

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Brian could be right. I have a series of 'Tiefangriffe' mentioned in a German paper but all that is mentioned is Frome, airfield NW of Salisbury, town NE of Dover and Maidstone. Faulhaber, St Kap of 1/KG 6, and Lt Gerhard Lucke of 2/KG 6 were active over UK that day

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Thankyou gentleman.

I've seen gravelroots, but this is just one of a few accounts. I have all sorts of accounts that it was a Heinkel 111 or a Ju88, it was being chased by a Beaufighter, it was jettisoning its bombs, it was coming from this direction, it was coming from that direction. "Did you actually see it...?" I'd ask only to be told "no" but that's "probably" what it was... My source, the best I have yet, actually saw it and is adamant. He recognised it first by the sound of its engines then, as he told me: “It appeared out of the rain and was flying low, about 150 feet, and even on a murky day like this, seemed to cast a dark shadow. The plane was a Junkers 88, but painted jet black, with a red swastika on the tail fin, quite unlike the camouflaged planes we saw normally.” I thought I was pretty good with a/c recognition, but he was explaining differences in types of German a/c that I had no clue about, so this is the best eye witness account I have and have no reason to disbelieve it.

Also, the time the school was hit would have been between 1100 and 1130 as many of the boys were outside having their break and two of the survivors I spoke to recall drinking their milk in their classroom at the time and the headmaster reading one of the broadsheets. Would that be consistant with your times?

If this does indeed put Oblt Faulhaber and Lt Gerhard Lucke in the frame, how can I dig a bit deeper? What became of them? I'm afraid I'm an absolute novice at this and am learning as I'm doing it!

Many thanks

Nick

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Hi Nick,

Just a few thoughts the Ju88 may have been painted in a splinter pattern of two shades of green on upper surfaces ( including blackgreen) with overpainted black undersurfaces. Viewed from the ground this may well have appeared to be an all black aircraft . The post by Chris shows aircraft of 2nd Staffel took part in the raid and their Staffel colour was red. There is a chance that the aircrafts individual id letter may have been painted in red on the fuslage side, it would not be beyond the realms of possibility that this may have given rise to the red swastika story. The gravelroots site just mentions a swastika without its colour, it would be quite easy to make mistakes on an aircraft coming out of the rain fast at low altitude.
Thats just my thoughts on some possibilities,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

He 111 in daylight at low level would have been very unlikely if not suicidal. No mention of any combats with Ju 88 or He 111 and Beaufighters this day. Both survived the war

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

KG 6 are certainly the most likely, although I have never managed to positively identify the unit. Certainly a Junkers 88, though.

There are an amazingly high quality series of photographs of the aftermath and the sad funeral procession taken by a local photographer.

I have attached the Roll of Honour and a photo of the memorial for interest.

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Gents, thankyou for such prompt and informed replies.

Brian, the paint pattern would seem a likely reason for believeing the a/c to be black. And with where the swastika usually is, in just a quick look but without actually seeing it, a number, I guess, could easily be mistaken for a swastika. But if a Staffel colour is red, what part is actually red? The lettering? I can recognise German a/c easily, but when it comes to detail like that, I wouldn't have a clue.

Chris, my 'eye witness' accounts turned out not to be so, but just what "probably" happened. Even as I listened to them, I was wondering why an He 111 would be heading for the deck instead of the low clouds having been found by absolute chance by an RAF fighter, see the tall chimneys in Petworth and take a well aimed shot at one of them as it tries to slip the fighter. And if that were so, I'd be looking for a crash report of an He111, as you said, in my limited understanding, it would have been suicidal. So all highly unlikely, but which eventually turned from probability into fact over the course of almost 70 years.

Could the timings of raids from specific bases and types of a/c put Faulhaber and Lucke into the pilots seat of that Ju88 do you think? It would be an educated guess on your parts gentlemen and I'll be following your evidence. Where can I go to find out about these two men, I mean, who do I contact in Germany as the internet will only give me so much. I've researched crews on KG55 and found it very difficult without the knowledge you both clearly have.

Many thanks,

Nick

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Without anything but circumstantial evidence, I would not attempt an educated guess. If both are still alive, I greatly doubt that they would be able to add anything. I was in touch with Hans-Joachim Faulhaber some years ago when he asked me to identify who shot him up in 1942-I have photos of both Germans but again, they might not be the ones involved

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

If they are alive then obviously they will be in very advanced years. With respect, and I hope you wont mind me saying so, but approaching them about an attack where they may have caused the deaths of twenty eight children and two teachers might be rather insensitive.

I hope you don't think me to be out of order for saying this and I have little doubt that you will be fully aware of the sensitivities involved.

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Nick,

Take for example Faulhabers's 3E+DH, the 3E was the code for the unit KG6, the D was the individual aircraft letter which could be in the staffel colour or just outlined in the staffel colour, while the H ( 1st. Staffel) was was the staffel letter. So an aircraft of 2/KG6 could have its individual letter appearing after the fuselage cross in red followed by K for 2nd. Staffel.
Just from memory one of the last He111's shot down on the UK in daylight was in June 1942, when He111s of Ep.KdoXY attempted an attack on Avonmouth Docks in condition of low cloud and rain. The leader of the raid Hpt. Langer and his crew falling in combat with the Beaufighter of W/C Cunningham in the Shaftesbury area. Other He111s in the period fell on night raids.
Regarding the Petworth raid the only reference I can find for that day is KG6, of which it can only be said they were a strong contender for this attack, but the evidence is not conclusive,

Brian Bines

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Just checked the ops logbook of Ofw Karl Rumpf from Faulhaber's crew and it adds nothing apart from TO Creil 1037 (1137 UK time) land 1220 hrs and it was a Tiefangriff on the English south coast

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Chris, what I mean by going after your educated guess is starting off researching back into these two pilots. Before today I just had a Ju88. Now I might have possible pilots. I'm not going to guess that it was either of them, but you all give me an excellent place to start digging. If I turn up with nothing associating either of them with Petworth, then I won't assume anything and the pilot will go unknown. I'll only go forward if I can positively identify the crew. And as you say that Faulhaber's log put him over Creil at 1137 UK time, that puts him out the picture. Which leaves me Lt Lucke. Can you tell me anything about him?

Andy, I have no intention of blundering in and haunting these men. If I wished to be critical of them, then I would have to be critical of almost every allied pilot who flew bombing missions over enemy territory. This is a part of my local history which I am researching. I understand it is sensitive. Some people talk about their experiences, some don't. I have found both with researching this subject. I have the perspective of those who were in the school at the time, those who lost relatives and those who dug the boys out. I have nothing about the aircraft or its crew. And it is not the bombing of a school I am looking at, it is the fact that a German bomber hit Petworth. I have sat in the crater made by an He111 in Northchapel, I know who the crew were, I have eye witness accounts and I know who shot it down. I'm also trying to find out about a V1 which hit Northchapel. Had the bombs hit their intended target, I would have been searching for the crew just the same. Should I ever find out who the crew were, and if they're still alive, I'd like to make enquiries as to whether they'd be willing to talk to me,most likely through here. If not, I'd leave it. But the people who I've spoken to, who were in the classrooms and one of whom lost their brother, would just like to know. They've had this long of just not knowing. I hope that allays any thoughts you might have that I'd do something without thinking.

Brian, thanks for explaining the markings. With names and squadrons, I might be able to make some headway. Is there anywhere particular in Germany that I can make any enquiries? Between yourself and Chris with logbooks, if you can't come up with the names of the crew with the knowledge you seem to have, I can only imagine I'll be looking into an archive in Germany. Just which one and where? But with some clues to work on now, I at least have a good start. If I can't associate Lt Lucke with Petworth with the information you've given me, then I guess I'm going to be out of luck.

Thankyou all for all your assistance.

Nick

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

I am afraid that I can add nothing further that is conclusive

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Chris, is there anything you can tell me about Lt Lucke, anything at all? And please, does anybody have a suggestion of where I should be looking in Germany?

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Sorry Nick, I wasn't trying to teach grandmother to suck eggs. Hope you took my comment in the spirit it was intended and good luck with your research.

I have quite a bit on the He 111 at Ebernoe/Northchapel by the way.

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Andy... do you mean Hauptmann Sabler's He111 of Kg 55 which came down on Upper Frithfold Farm? I'd be very interested to know anything you have. I've got a fair bit, but am always searching for that little bit more. I have Pilot Officer Goodman accredited with shooting it down and I really wanted to get a testimony about him, but the gentleman I asked, through sending emails off to various people, never replied. But if you have anything, I'd love to see it...!

Nick

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Nick,

See the two sites, the BundesArchiv may be able to help if there are records held of reports to Ob.der Luftwaffe on luftwaffe activity in the period http://www.feldgrau.com/contacts.html orhttp://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Suche-R.htm. The KG6 history 'Wir flogen gen Westen was written by Jan Horn, who I believe is at present working on another unit history. He may be able to help but I have no contact with him, others on TOCH may be able to advise you on contacting him.
Going back to Petworth the main bomber units attacking the UK in the period were KG2/II/KG40 with Do217's and KG6 with Ju88's. Both have unit histories the KG2 book shows nuisance raids by 22 aircraft of 1X Fliegerkorps on the 28th and attacks by aircraft of KG2 and 6 on the 30th. The KG6 history has both these attacks but adds the 29th. as an attack by a few of their aircraft. The chance that KG6 was the only bomber unit operating on the 29th is added to by a Fighter Command appreciation report ( held in File AIR16/236 at the PRO Kew ) which states ' 29th Sept in the morning three long range bombers crossed the South Coast dropping bombs in Somerset, Wiltshire and Sussex, and 2 Fw190s dropped bombs and opened fire with m.g. in Kent. These raids caused considerable damage to a factory, a military reception centre, a boy's school and a colliery'. The PRO also holds files on the interception of Luftwaffe radio reports which may indicate which units were operating, but I am not sure which files these would be held on possibly around AIR22/500,

Brian Bines

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

What do you want to know about Lucke and what would you be looking for in Germany that others have failed to find already?

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Yes, I have photos of Sabler's orginal grave, the wreckage at Frithfold and pictures of the wing which fell some distance away.

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Morning
Can somebody please post the titles/details of the published KG6 and KG40 units histories please.
With thanks
Austin

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Hi Austin,

KG6 'Wir Flogen gen Westen' vol. 1 IBSN 3-00-013291-0 and vol 2 IBSN 978-3-00-024579-4 by Jan Horn, available through Christian Schmidt in Germany. The KG2 history (not KG40) was two volumes in softback by Ulf Balke title 'Der Luftkrieg In Europa - Die Operativen Einsatze Kampfgeschwader 2 Im Zweiten Weltkrieg ' IBSN 3-7637-5882-8 and 3-7637-5884-4. I do not know if these KG2 histories are still available,

Brian Bines

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Many thanks Brian
Have the KG2 histories - will have to save up for the KG6's.
**Thinks**Now wouldn't a published general history of KG40's overland 1942/43 raids be great (to go with Chris')??
Austin

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

As you say, the only published source (as far as I am aware) is my V/KG 40 book. If you then add the FW 200 ops, the He 177 ops, the He 111 then Do 217 then Me 410, this would be a massive undertaking (I have been approached by the way but the effort would be too great). There is also a 2 volume work on KG 6 written by Ab Jansen for the KG 6 Association but it was a very limited print run

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Wow, Brian, that's the closest I've come to any sort of identification of the unit. Three bombers on the 29th, all to seperate places, one being Sussex and a boys school destroyed? If I looked into those files you mentioned in Kew, then might I be able to nail it down further? I had no idea they kept that sort of file!

Chris, as you can see, I'm edging closer to something with your and Brian's help. I have no idea what I want to know about Lucke as I know nothing at all about him, but you seem to be the man who knows of him best. I either want to tie him into it or eliminate him from it. So, what can you tell me about him that might make him the pilot of that aircraft or, indeed not the pilot of that aircraft. And what I'm looking for in Germany is something closer to an answer, as opposed to the clues that are being turned up for me here. If you can suggest anywhere else as to where I can enquire, then I'm all eyes. The fact that others have failed to find anything does not concern me. I'd like to think I'm a little more tenacious than to give up just because someone else has failed before me. Perhaps they did not have the clues that I now have. If I could add the possibility of a pilot to that of a squadron, that would certainly narrow down my search, but if you can tell me anything that puts Lt Lucke out of the frame, then I can discount him as the pilot. I'm not doing this because I want to go on a witch hunt, I'm doing it because I want to find out and because there are people in Petworth who'd just like an ending to that particular story. If they want to know, I'll tell them, if they don't, I won't. Do you believe I have another motive, perhaps?

And Andy, I've spoken to two people who went to that crash site, one of whom saw the bomber being shot down. You have photos of it!? Would it be possible for me to see them somehow?

Thanks chaps.

Nick

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Lucke was born 12 Mar 14 in Magdeburg and flew with II/KG 51 and later I/KG 77 which became I/KG 6 in Aug 42. He was then with 2/KG 2, St Kap of 11/KG 6 and ended the war with IV/KG(J) 6. 361 missions. If he is still alive, I am not sure he has his logbook otherwise it would have given more details for 29 Sep 42. I therefore cannot say yes or no to him being over Petworth on that date and would suggest we leave it at that. As to Germany-as I said, all other avenues as far as I am aware have been explored. I expect that this will remain a mystery

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Thankyou Chris and thankyou Brian for your time and giving me a couple of excellent leads.

Andy, I'd really like to find out more on Sablers He111 if you would.

Many thanks,

Nick

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Nick

Here are some pics relating to Hptm Sabler's He 111.

Andy

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Chris,

Are you sure that Ab Jansen's volume on KG 6 was ever published? I never saw a copy and a couple of years ago I helped Ab to find some additional pictures.

John

Re: Petworth Boys School bombing by Ju88
 

Book was published privately by KG 6 Association and runs to 2 volumes