Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Hello All,

A relative of mine, Sgt Bert Ridley of 578 Squadron RAF, was killed when his Halifax was shot down during the daylight raid on Gelsenkirchen on 11 September 1944. I am trying to trace the precise crash site. RAF records show it simply as Kirchhellen, although it is not clear whether that refers to the town or the nearby airfield.

If anyone has any details or research suggestions, I would be very grateful. I have tried several lines of research in the town of Kirchhellen, with no success yet. I plan to visit the area next month, with other members of my family and one of the crew members who survived the crash - he and other members of the crew were able to able out of the aircraft, but Bert was killed by the initial AAA hit.

Best regards,

Mal Ridley

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Mal, your relative, Albert James Ridley 1334902, was the rear gunner. The aircraft was reported as brought down by flak. Rear gunners tended to survive a lot of crashes, in this case it would seem that flak hit the tail, killing him. The rest of the crew were taken PoW so there may be more information in the NA at Kew if they completed any reports on release in 1945. it might also be more specific about where they crashed.

I would expect Sgt Ridley to have been buried in a churchyard near the crash site. The CWGC may have records detailing from where his body was recovered prior to being reburied at Reichswald.

Hope that's of help.

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Good evening Mal !

There are atleast two entries of British bomber crashes in the Luftgaukommando files known tracing to the crash in Kirchhellen that day.
-file # KU 2967 reports: 11 Sep 44 1836 Halifax 499 m NE. airfield Kirchhellen, 8 km SW. Dorsten
-file # KU 2996 reports: 11 Sep 44 1838 Kirchhellen, 6 km NW Gladbeck

On my opinion, both reports cover one event, since the rest of the crew baled out and was probably wide-spread captured and so different responsibilities gave there report another file-number.

You can order this reports in the U.S. National Archives.

All the best !

Horst Weber

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Tag, Horst
We do make jokes about German thoroughness, but to record the crash site as 499 metres NE from the Kirchhellen airfield surely takes the prize!!
Seriously, thanks for your help.
Would those files also cover wreckage of Halifax losses around Leipzig 3rd/4th December 1943?

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Good evening Icare9 !

It's indeed funny since I never found such a precise distance (or what ever it was ???) had been reported.
Kirchhellen airfield is listed in the Ries-book of German airfields of WW 2.
It is also listed in the allied airfields as Y82.

Today, the airfield is still in use for Sport and minor training/business activities under the name: Dinslaken "Schwarze Heide".

The tower-coordinates are: 6°51'46'' East
51°36'53'' North


From which point should the 499 meter research start now ?

All the best !

Horst Weber

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

The search should start by checking if there is an aerial recce photo (which I am sure there is) from the area in question dated after the crash. You should see markings on the ground, even if the wreckage was removed. Danny

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Thanks Sir !

But unfortunately, I'm not in the possession of an aerial recce photo of the spot.

Horst Weber

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Good point, Danny.
Where is the nearest church and cemetery to the airfield? Would they have any records of wartime burial of RAF crew? If it was the only bomber to crash in the locality, there may be photo's etc in local newspapers archives.

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Good evening Mal & Danny !

The local newspaper trace would not work, since in this stage of war, no German newspaper was allowed to report about matters like that. The church and cemetary record idea would not work either, since the parishes were not allowed, to note graves officially of this particular matter in their records. Sometimes, but that is very rare, you find some notices in the priest's private diaries.

The best way to find some information is, to contact the town of Bottrop. In 1944, Kirchhellen was an own town with a regisration office. Postwar, the British Administration ordered, that the German local administrations had to register in their register-book of the local administration the death of British airmen, when a case like this occored.

In the German local-administration deseased-books, you can find a lot of entries in the years 1946-1949, confirming this with high or less accuracy.

In 1944, Kirchhellen was a town of its own and had his own registry office. In the 1970s, local responsibilities changed and Kirchellen became a part of the City of Bottrop. I am sure, the register-books of Kirchhellen are now at the local adminstration of Bottrop and you should contact them.

All the best !

Horst Weber

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Horst, many thanks for your detailed explanation. I have been wondering if there were other sources of records, such as newspapers and church records, and this clarifies why none were permitted!

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Gentlemen,

Thank you so much for your contributions; I very much appreciate them.

I know a fair amount about the events leading up to the crash, as I've been able to meet two surviving crew members; the navigator and the wireless operator. The crew were on only their fourth or so mission, and were unable to positively identify the target at Gelsenkirchen on their first run. They went around again to re-attack, and were hit by AAA.

The pilot had control difficulties almost immediately, and a bale out seemed certain. However, my relative, Bert Ridley, the rear gunner, failed to answer on the intercom. The bomb aimer was sent aft to check on him, and found him dead - presumably from the initial effects of the AAA hit. After this, the crew bailed out successfully.

Bert was finally buried in the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery, where we will visit his grave next month.

Your clues as to the crash location are very interesting. As mentioned, the RAF records simply show 'Kirchhellen'; we intend to visit the town when we travel next month and have been trying to find any contacts in the town who might remember the event. In some ways the precise location is not critical, in that Bert was killed before the aircraft came down. However, it would be nice to know! It would also be helpful to know that no additional casualties were caused on the ground by the crash; there was enough suffering on both sides in those days.

Again; I can't thank you enough for your interest and help. I will follow up on your suggestions! I am an ex-RAF pilot myself (recently left), and I feel a great empathy with those involved in these events on both sides. It is important to do justice to their memory, I believe.

Best regards,

Mal

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Horst,

The two positions you mention are very close to each other, and all the other research I have done shows only one Halifax lost in the area. RAF records show the crash time as 1830, so it all seems to agree!

Thanks again,

Mal

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Good evening Mal !

Thank you for your good words. If you are planning to come to the place for gaining more information and you think, needing some aid concernimg the local administration, give me a note by PN, please.

Best regards,

Horst Weber

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

Just to follow up on this thread...

I have now visited the area of this crash, especially two possible sites based on local research and memories. These are both close to the town of Kirchhellen, and do not match up with the records mentioned by Horst. However, understandably, there does seem to be doubt about some of the details.

Horst,

Would you say that the Luftkommando records are likely to be reliable, in your experience? My instincts tells me that they probably are, given that the locations are both so close to an active Luftwaffe airfield. What are your thoughts?

Best regards,

Mal

Re: Loss of Halifax NA568 LK-Q 11 Sep 44
 

It is possible that the Halifax was shot down by Croats who were located there as a part of Flak Legion.My father, a Croat was AA 8.8 schwere FLAK gunner. I have his photo taken at a photo studio in the nearby town of Gladbeck in 1944. I found out that one of the defensive location of his unit was Kirchellen. Later on he was captured by the British forces at Hamburg in 1945 and was in POW camp for a while.He did not talk much about the war while he was alive. He died in 1987. I remember one of his war stories;namely that his 8,8 shot down an allied plane and that the pilot was keeping his plane airborne so long as to allow his comrades to bail out of the doomed plane.My father remembered seeing him wave his hand as a farewell to the others before he crashed.There could have been many of such stories...I am also trying to find out more about him and those years he spent in Luftwaffe in 1943-45.There were 4000-4500 Croats who were part of Flak Legion and maybe 1000 survived the war.They were trained in Wiener Neustadt and some were sent to the west front.