58 Sqn Whitley
 

Hi guys, I'm currently researching an incident involving my Great-Uncle Leonard Adlam, which took place on 21st October 1940, when his Whitley of No. 58 Sqn crashed into the Yorkshire Moors after a mission across the Channel.

Some brief infomation can be seen here - http://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/.../40/t4171.html

I'm trying to put together an article regarding this incident for a future project I'm working on and so I'm looking for all the information I can get.

If anyone else has any further information or knows of any sources that might be able to help me with this then I'd really appreciate the help.

Any photos of a of 58 Sqn Whitley would be great too.

I'm also wondering how I would view 58 Sqn's ORB?

The exact reason the Whitley crashed is uncertain because the official card says "out of petrol" but most sources believe Hptm Karl Hulshoff of 3./NJG2 - Ju 88 C, shot it down on an intruder mission, but he claimed it as a "Hereford" which is odd.

Is there a way to find out the exact losses of bomber command that day to try and piece it all together?

Apologies for all the questions, I just thought to ask in case someone can help.

Best,

Chris

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

I presume you have Bomber Command Losses 1940 by WR Chorley? If not I can scan the page for you relating to the 20th/21st Oct 1940 when Whitley T4171 GE-O was lost?

And yes Bill Chorley does say the Whitley was shot down by Karl Hulshoff of I/NGJ2

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

I don't Larry, that would be great, thanks!

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

I sent a PM - as I am unable to upload ANY imagages on this Forum for some reason!

Mods - the size was below 195 KB foe a JPEG yet it would not work!

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

The ORB is kept on microfilm (and in deep store original paper form) at the National Archives in west London, the file references are AIR 27/543 (for the ORB) and AIR 27/547 (Appendices to the ORB).

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

Excellent, thank you Alan!

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

I was at Kew on Thursday and copied all the entries from the ORB which mentioned Adlam. He wasn't with 58 Sqn long his posting in was recorded on the 9th September 1940. He only appears to have been on 5 operational flights (including the fatal one).

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

Thanks Alan, I didn't know that. Is there any chance I can see the copies? I've sent you a PM.

Chris

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

They are on their way.

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

Fantastic, thank you!

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

Chris,

Hptm. Hülshoff St.Kpt. of 3./NJG2 scored his first abschuss of the war.
He claimed a Hampden destroyed near Dishford aerodrome this was,in fact the first combat reported by 1./NJG2 that can be confirmed by RAF records.Hülshoff's quarry was a 58 Squadron whitley that was shot up by a intruder at Thornaby-on-tees and crash-landed at Ingleby eith the loss of four of its crew. crashtime 21.30 hour...

Michel

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

Thanks Michel, appreciate the help! :)

C

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

Another thing that I am finding hard to track down is information on Sgt Robert E Langfield of 58 Sqn, because he survived the incident, so surely his testimony of what happend must be recorded somewhere? (Wireless Op/Air Gunner)

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

Hi guys, I'm back with a couple of additional inquiries that I wonder if anyone could help out with:

- Karl Hülshoff claimed he shot down this aircraft at 21.30, but the bomber command losses record says it crashed at 6.15, so I have no idea which is accurate?

- Also, if a Whitley set out at 1900 and crashed the following day at 0615 that means it was airborne for a long old time! I didn't even know a bomber carried that much fuel?

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

I'll check on the endurance of the Whitley but I do know they flew all the way to Turin in Northern Italy and back in the early war years at relatively low cruising speed.

In Sept 1940 58 Sqn was with Bomber Command but had also served with Coastal Command until April 1940 and again from April / May 1942 with Mk VIIs equipped with ASV.

My gut feeling though is that 11.15 hours airborne is a bit too long for a typical Bomber Command mission - but what was the mission that night and were overload tanks needed?

What was the aircraft serial number by the way?

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

I think some details have already been given, but:-
58 Squadron. Whitley Mk V. Serial Number: T4171; Squadron Code: GE-O.
Operation: Pilsen. 20th October / 21st October 1940
Airborne 19:00 20th Oct 40 from Linton on Ouse. Shot down at 06:15 by Hptm Karl Hulshoff of 1./NJG2 who was flying an Intruder mission over Northern England. The Whitley crashed in flames on the NW slopes of the Cleveland Hills at Bottom Head near Ingleby Greenhow, Yorkshire.
This was the first successful enemy Intruder sortie of the war, though the official accident card gives the cause as "out of petrol".
P/O E.H. Brown KIA; Sgt L.F.P. Adlam KIA; Sgt C.S.G. Green (DoW); Sgt R.E. Langfield Inj; Sgt M.C.Caryll de Tilkin KIA.

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley T4171
 

I was having a 'senior moment' asking for the serial number!!!

BTW - is Pilsen the same as Plzen as used in Bomber Command Losses 1940?

Regarding the time 06.15 hrs mentioned above I have just seen in Bomber Command Losses 1940 that Whitley P5095 of 51 Sqn lost the same day was in the air for 12 hours on a trip to Milan so that confirms the endurance.

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley T4171
 

Is Pilsen the same as Plzen? Probably, after a few....... modern name versus 1940's spelling?

Re: 58 Sqn Whitley
 

Thanks guys, I appreciate your help!