Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Greetings all,

did anybody have camouflage diagram for Hs 123 with RLM 70 and 71 on top side?

Cheers :)

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Hello Pilot

I can find no reference for a 70/71 Hs 123, plenty of books have the early colour splinter. However the front cover of Waffen Arsenal's Luftwaffe II Band 13 by Squadron Signal/Podzun-Verlag has a side profile with clear colour demarcations. PM me with your email if you don't have this illustration.

Cheers

Chris

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Thank you Chris- PM are on :)

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Something Like this?

http://decals.kitreview.com/decals/i...reviewse_1.jpg

http://decals.kitreview.com/decals/i...reviewse_2.jpg

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

You are right Mohawk- just something like that. I have few images and try to make color profile but any attempt fail as well I see only one deep color on topside and I am not sure that they are single painted at top side.

Thank you for your time :)

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Y're welcom ;)

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Not a diagram but a good top view.

Chuck

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Hi Chuck

That is a great picture but it illustrates the early upper three colour 61/62/63 scheme. The 70/71 scheme is difficult in the that the demarcation is almost impossible to discern on photos as the aircraft are often dusty, the colours have faded and the ambient light and glare often masks the colour borders. I have a lot of photos of this charismatic aircraft and on only a handful is this scheme in evidence and then only on parts of the aircraft.

Regards

Chris

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Yes, this is excellent top view of the old scheme! Thank you, it is useful too! Here it is result of your kind help:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35...-Axthammer.jpg

Cheers :)

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

As far as I have been able to determine, the HS 123 was not painted in 70/71. It was in the 61/62/63/65 or an over-all dark green, most likely over paint of the four-color scheme.

The shadow cast by the upper wing is often mistaken for another color.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Well... source?

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

It is true to say that the earlier scheme did linger far later on the Hs 123 than other machines, and perhaps, in many cases, was never repainted, there are also many photos that do show the application of the darker and more uniform almost monotone colour that is almost certainly the 70/71 scheme. On these aircraft the lack of 63 Hellgrau light grey which is so characteristic of the earlier scheme and stands out so well on photographs is noted by being clearly absent.

Cheers

Chris

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

No one has come up with a 70/71 pattern for the Hs 123 (then again they are lacking for the Bf 110 also).

Looking at pictures after pictures, I have not come up with a single one that can be said to be 70/71.

IIRC, production of the Hs 123 stopped by fall 1938, and was supplanted by the Ju 87A, which was in the four color scheme. The Hs 123 appears not to have continued in production long enough for 70/71 on a dive bomber.

Many Hs 123s remained in the four color scheme for a long time. others receive a repaint of "green".

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

We are all-too-familiar with the simple - and proven wrong - assumption that many Luftwaffe aircraft, particularly on the eastern Front, were in a single green. So doubt that this was the case for the Hs123 is entirely understandable, particularly in the lack of good clear photos of the type. Why should it be true?

Is it true that all types out of production before the introduction of the 70/71 scheme never received this scheme? This does sound like a possible mechanism by which the apparently unique colour scheme of a single green could have been created. I suspect that some aircraft, such as the Fw56 perhaps, will disprove this, but I'm unsure of its production run.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

It is good to hear everybody opinion with additional sources and documents. I could not imagine that Hs 123 is not known subject...

Cheers .)

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Graham you do need to keep an open mind about deviations from an "assumed spec". Other than the canard about fuzzy pix, there has been nothing to show that the 70/71 was on a Hs 123. It is often the fuzzy pictures that are used to show 70/71. The single green on the Hs 123 has not been proven wrong. Can you offer the proof? The point is that there is no proof that 70/71 was ever applied at the factory.

The only evidence of 70/71 is in questionable profiles.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Hi all,
here two examples of monochrome Hs123 from my private collection

HTH

piero

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Nice images Piero :) First look like very fresh paint work and the another is wash out and no precise info. From first image it look that single coat was on planes. Any two tone Hs123 on top side? I somehow believe that two tone could be somewhere there, it look like impossible that so many people have made profiles without proof. Or that was a mistake repeated for years?

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Steve, you need to be more open-minded, with an eye to experience. There have been many photos of "monochrome" Luftwaffe aircraft that later turned out to be nothing of the kind. Hs129s, Ju87s, Bf109s....

The available photos of Hs123s are generally of fairly poor definition, the kind that lead to just this mistake. It is fair to point out that, after some time in service, 71 faded to provide much more contrast with 70 than when new, and it would be reasonable to expect some Hs123 photos to show this. To that extent, it is understandable that many people believe the aircraft was unique in having a single green uppercoat as standard, particularly in the lack of a 70/71 pattern for the type. This is not the same thing as proven, which I think most people realise.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

I have a "soft spot" for the Hs 123, and I managed to collect a couple of hundred of original photos of this sturdy biplane.

I just checked them, and found none that clearly shows the "classic" two-tone RLM 70/71 camouflage scheme.

On a very few photos one may see a demarkation line on the upper paint job, but I believe those are the early four-colour camo overpainted in large areas by a new coat of dark paint, possibly green.

Therefore, I am also still waiting for the ultimate proof for the RLM 70/71 camouflage scheme being worn by any Hs 123.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Agreed. I believe much confusion has been caused by the shadow cast by the upper wing. Of course the shadow appears darker on the fuselage.

I too would like to see substantial evidence.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

You paint with far too broad a brush. As Denes note, not much evidence, if any at all.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

I'm not the one claiming evidence. I've no private (or otherwise) stock of photos of the type. I'm just pointing out that this suggestion has been proven wrong in the past, almost without exception. Such exceptions have been a limited number of aircraft, in particular circumstances, rather than the entire service stock of the type. If the Hs123 fleet was repainted in this monochrome style it would be unique in Luftwaffe history, something which might be thought to require at least a little explanation rather than just being nodded through?

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

All right. The image I used for this profile is definitely show very dark color on top side but the overall quality is moderate. So I was really wonder did this plane have blend colors 70 and 71 on image. Well, from this discussion is obviously that single color is used on Hs 123 in later service and proof for the two colors still have to be found. I have adopt previous profile, which is made for the testing.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35...xthammer-1.jpg

Now I am really wonder why in many publications are published two tones Hs 123?

Thank you all :)

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Hi,
not unique, I think to the Go145's and Ar66's from Störkampfstaffeln and later Nachtschlachtgruppen, almost all in 70 or 71

HTH

piero

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Also the Ju52 which was discussed here. A single dark color top and bottom.

Then there are the all light blue Do 217 and 17 (appears monochrome).

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Cannot find that one at the moment, but here is one similar:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4...d/6ca2ca4e.jpg

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

I know this image, I think it is from E-bay. Good one :)

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Please compare these two of the same unit: top one in 70/71 and the lower in the earlier three colour upper scheme. Note that the demarcation lines on both are different, so that on the top machine, there is no paint-over on an earlier scheme with a single colour as only two colours are evident, and one can see that there is no bleed-through of the older colours boundaries. Therefore the boundaries on the upper machine indicate only two, not three, colours.

Chris

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Two colors are not clearly evident. Unless you consider the shadow a second, and darker color. At that close any demarcation along the cowl, etc would be clear, as would a demarcation on the spat.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

If it is a single green than is it 70 or 71? From the info presented it does not appear that that is very evident.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Considering the non-existent color contrast fuselage/propeller, for me is the RLM 70 Schwarzgrün

piero

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

This image is interesting!

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/attach...5&d=1272491497

Watch top wing leading edge- port side is very dark and the starboard side is much lighter. Any idea?

Thank you Chris for the image :)

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

I forget to note that starboard wing show (at least) two shades while the other side look to be single shade.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

That is most interesting, as the painting guide for the four color scheme indicates that there would be at least two different colors on each wing at the leading edge. Also note that the front of the strut is also painted a dark color. I cnnot find another picture showing that design.

In going through the pictures on my hard drive, I noted that some "repainted" Hs 123s had the upper dark green wrap around and under the leading edge of the wings (similar to Italian style), while others did not.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Yes, replacement wing.

Re: Hs 123 camouflage diagram
 

Good, wing replacing is very logical answer.

:)