87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

Hello,

As far as my available references tell, Bf 109 F-2 or better its DB 601 N engine could only be fed with C3 higher octane fuel and only the DB 601 E installed in the Bf 109 F-4 could also burn B3 (87 octane) fuel.

Is this correct or were there known exceptions? I am no Bf 109 expert. Any help from board members with better 109-knowledge is greatly appreciated.

Roger

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

Roger,

From the begining, all stadard production Bf 109 F-2s were powered by the DB 601N which required C3 fuel. Why do you ask?

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

Hi Roger,
i did some research about DB601E and Bf 109 F-2 and F-4 models, when we found a F-2 with a DB601E installed. I check some crashes in 1943 and 1944 and found out, that most crashed F-2 Modells came back after repair as F-4 with an DB601E installed. The reason for this was, as far as i know, the possibility to use the less octane fuel, better performance and better gun. Gun and engine was the only significant difference for all F-series.

Does this help you?

Greetings

Lino

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

Yes. The 9552 of Zigfried Schnell has it.

Look Here

http://s2.postimage.org/g1KcA-b3d27f...dda1b8d73f.jpg

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

Not all. Arado Bf 109F-2 all had DB 601E engine starting from W.Nr. 9535

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

So finally at least according to the documents and definitions given by Messerschmitt and Daymler Benz, a Bf 109 F Model with a DB 601E installed is a Bf 109 F-4 :-)

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

If the claim that Arado built Bf 109 F-2s were, at some point in their career, re-engined with the more powerful DB 601E (which appeared in June 1941) with the engine cannon upgraded to 20mm, thus becoming defacto F-4s, when then was the last new built Arado F-2 actually delivered?

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

One thing you should know - some Bf 109F-2s were indeed updated to F-4s without changing the WNr. I actually have in my collection a dataplate that was given to me in trade some years ago that is illustrative of this.

Bf 109F-2, 9585, n.n, , , IV., JG 51, , , , , 01-Jun-42, Overturned during landing., , Lw.Kdo.Ost, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #6)-Vol.9; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IX.2, p.360, , Fl.Pl. Dugino, 35%, F, , ,
Bf 109F-4, 9585, n.n, , , 2.(H), 14, schwarzes, 9 +, , , 29-Nov-42, Flak. Captured by Brits on same day., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Tunisien, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1830, , bei Chauel (Chaouat), 100%, F, , ,

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

Hello Harold, Lino and mmoustaf,

Thank you very much for your interesting posts. The reason why I was asking is that I have a photo of a Bf 109 F-2 W.Nr. 9227 that shows a yellow fuel triangle with '87'.

So, it appears that this one was retrofitted with a DB 601E. However, it was not built by Arado, but by the Mtt Regensburg plant.

From your comments I summarize:

1) Arado built Bf 109 F-2 were delivered by Mtt with a DB 601E from W.Nr. 9535 to 9734. The DB 601E became available from June 1941. According to J.Prien, P. Rodeike "Messerschmitt Bf 109 F,G,&K Series" the Arado block 9535-9734 was produced between June and August 1941. So, this would fit. Mtt Regensburg block 9151-9250 was produced between April and May 1941 when the DB 601E was not yet or just started to become available (the same book mentioned above says that the first F-4 were produced from May 1941 onwards, so the DB 601E must have been available already at that time).

2) Some Bf 109 F-2 were retrofitted with the DB 601E.

W.Nr. 9227 probably belonged to category 2)?

Regards,
Roger

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

As was posted here, that particular machine was a test bed for the DB 605 powerplant installation in Bf 109 G series.

If the photo was taken after december 1941, when the conversion took place, the triangle just shows the required fuel for its DB 605 (B-0 W.Nr. 76003).

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

Hello,
I thought it was 9553. Whatever interesting thread.
Cheers, Franck.

Re: 87 Octane fuel triangle on Bf 109 F-2: possible?
 

Hi,
five years ago i was doing some research for F2 to F4 changes. Attached you'll find an excel sheet with some crashes and accidents of Bf 109 F Types. As you can see, the later the accidents are, the more F types with an F2 serial have been modified to F4 and where also mentioned as F4 in GQM records.

Greetings

Lino