Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

There were two B-17s reported lost that day in the ETO and some sources have AG claiming one of them. This article appears to suggest that "Struggle Buggy" was downed by a German fighter rather than prop wash as was commonly believed: http://www.suedwest-aktiv.de/region/...72/artikel.php

"Struggle Buggy" was the last AC lost by the 94th BG in the war. The pilot was on his 2nd mission and managed to bail out. The rest of the crew were KIA.

Regards
Scott Blyth

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

A quick glance at some published sources on JV 44 do not show Galland claiming a B-17 on this date.

Don

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

Here is one source although I am not sure about the accuracy:

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/gallanda.html

Are there better lists available?

Thanks
Scott

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

Can't speak for the accuracy of the list, but in "The Mighty Eighth" by Freeman, it is noted that April 19th 1945 was the last date on which American heavy bombers were lost to Luftwaffe fighters.

Don

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

Thanks Don

I know the MACRs for "Slienthe Je Vahr" and "Struggle Buggy" do not mention enemy fighters. I believe both were attributed to prop wash. Both aircraft had only 1 survivor. I communicated with the navigator of "Slienthe Je Vahre" a few years ago and he indicated that he would be surprised if their downing was due to jet activity. Some eyewitnesses on the ground suggested that "Slienthe Je Vahr" was hit by lightning which might also suggest that the loss was due to R4M rockets from an ME-262. The navigator was James Boehling and his memoirs are posted on the site of the Virginia Chapter of the 8th AF. They make a very interesting read I might add.

http://www.8thaf-virginia.org/storie...Jimmy_Boehling

As for "Struggle Buggy" the crashsite is apparently being investigated or has been investigated and a rough translation of the German newspaper article indicates that:

"According to condense information from our newspaper are now indications that the bomber was hit by a German fighter plane."

Prior to reading this comment any connection between AG and the loss of "Struggle Buggy" was pure conjecture.

All the best

Scott

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

I agree with the conjecture. I think Sulzbach is near Frankfurt-am-Main, whereas Galland seemed to claim near Munich. I do have his full abschusse list, the first ninety-four are absolutely accurate, nowever the last seven with the jet would be slightly open to question, he had a couple of unconfirmed heavy bombers also one in 1943 and another in 1944:-

Nr 95 3rd April 1945 P-38
Nr 96 5th April 1945 B-24
Nr 97-98 16th April 1945 2x B-26
Nr 99 21st Apil 1945 B-17 near Munich
Nr 100-101 26th April 1945 2x B-26 near Munich

Regards

Johannes

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

Hi Johannes,

have you the data of these two unconfirmed victories gained by Galland in 1943 and 1944?
Thank you
Flavio

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

Thank you Johannes

I certainly think it better to be shot down by Galland rather than downed due to prop wash.

Cheers
Scott

P-38 Victory on April 3,1945
 

I find this victory claim interesting. There are no reported losses of any 15th AF P-38 or F-5 on April 3,1945, On April 4,1945 one P-38 of the 14th FG was lost in action with Me-262s of JV-44 though it is accepted that it was lost in a collision with a JV-44 Me-262.

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

Hi Flavio

Actually I found three:-

9th October 1943 B-17 Marienburg area(without witness)
8th March 1944 B-17 x2(don't know why these were unconfirmed, but probably to do this his combat ban!?

Regards

Johannes

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

kaki3152,

According to period intell reports the following is noted under the heading of "Enemy Air Activity" for the 3rd.

...Five or six possible jet a/c were seen west of Kiel but no contact was made and one, of three Me.262s sighted over Flensburg was destroyed...
This loss is not mentioned in volume IV of Me.262 by Classics. So, who knows.

Apparently the 8th Air Force made the claim at 1630 hrs. The jets sighted west of Kiel were opperating at 27,000 ft and this was noted at 1700 hrs.

Stephen

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

I am still having difficulty accepting that the loss of "Struggle Bunny" can be attributed to Galland. What is the evidence beyond here-say? The MACR places the crash more than 200 km NW of Munich. The witness reports indicate no contact with fighter aircraft.

Forsyth in his "JV 44" indicates that a single 12-minute training was flown on the 21st, and not by Galland.
Galland was summoned to the Obersalzberg on the 21st to meet with Goring.

Convince me otherwise

Don

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

Hello Don

This is definitely hear-say evidence. My father was a photo recon pilot with the 14th squadron of the 7th group based at Mount Farm, Oxfordshire, UK. He brought back a lot of photos which he took from F-5s (P-38s) and Spitfire MK XIs. One of the photos was taken from an F-5 and was not taken by him. It was a B-17 in flight and tracing the serial number I was able to verify that it was "Slienthe Je Vahr" of the 452nd BG. Out of curiosity I was able to determine that "Slienthe Je Vahr" was lost on the 250th and last mission of the Group. This was the 1st and last mission for this crew and there was only one survivor. According to various sources there was one claim of a B-17 that day and it was by Adolf Galland with JV 44 flying an ME-262. The only other B-17 lost that day in the ETO was "Struggle Buggy" of the 94th BG. Assuming that AG downed a B-17 that day it was most likely "Struggle Buggy." The crash site has apparently been excavated and the German expert has determined that "Struggle Buggy" was downed by a German fighter and not by prop wash.

All the best
Scott Blyth

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

Thank you Johannes,

please, which sources do you use to find these datas?

Regards
Flavio

Re: Did Adolf Galland down B-17 "Struggle Buggy" on April 21, 1945
 

Here is a Luftwaffe claims list from April 21, 1945. Please note that Galland is the only pilot claiming a B-17 that day:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24554019@N06/4718830050/

Once again I don't know how reliable this list is. What I do know is that records can be wrong and that things that were believed to be true in previously published historical works can subsequently be shown to be wrong or at least open to question. Here is a case in point involving one of my father's fellow pilots from the 7th Photo Group:
On 26 November 1944, Hermann Buchner, in his first operational sortie in an Me262, 'Yellow 8', claims to have shot down Irvin Rickey flying an F-5E (P-38). The official reason for the loss at the time was flak rather than enemy aircraft. The well researched semiofficial history of the 7th PRG "Eyes of the Eighth" by Pat Keen and published in 1996 with a forward by Roger Freeman still lists the reason for the loss as flak.

Here is the source for the above claims list:

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/1945.html

Cheers
Scott Blyth