Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Dear all!

Thanks to the work done and willingness to share research by mr. Pentti Manninen, I have today been able to share this very interesting document via my website at www.ahs.no

Direct link to the article at:

http://www.ahs.no/storydisplay.asp?S...30&Folder=News

I would also like to thank mr. Kari Lumppio for his role in making this available to the community.

I hope that one of the moderators can make the link to this thread a permanent thread on top of the forum, as I would suspect more than a few discussions to emerge following the documents publication.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

As nobody has responded to abowe post more than 8 hours later... Where are the fighter fans? I am not that much of a Messerschmitt fan, but indeed good work Andreas. It seems you and your fellow researchers may have partly won "the world cup" in Bf 109 research, if I may say so here. This one document is one of the best yet I have seen (but does lack those made before the E-1 and those made after mid year 1943).

Obviously many´s favourite subject, but how about other types. Do they not deserve similar attention and be placed on top of this forum? Personally I find the Fw 190 more interesting design... ;-)

Best regards
ed

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

The internet is so unpredictable. Who knew this was coming? There was no previous advertising :) Thank you, Andreas, for posting this. It will no doubt be helpful to those who discover it over the weeks and months to come.


Regards,
Ed West

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Hi,

To be honest, I looked at the document this morning, and tried translating some of it; it may be helpful if someone would explain what it is!

Thanks in advance,

Don

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

For anyone with an interest in the Bf 109 this is a fantastic document detailing different technical changes in production and from which W.Nr. the changes were made and from what time. It should make some people sleepless a few nights while they digest the data!

I'd love to see the same type of document for some other aircraft... :-)

/Mike

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Hi All,

Come on Ed (North) we were busy!... :D And yes Mike it will make me sleepless for a while.
Thanks very much for the list Andreas; since I'm on the way to recover (rebuild in fact) my owns; will be helpfull.

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Very interesting that the "Gallandpanzer" is from 1942 already...

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

For anyone with an interest in the Bf 109 this is a fantastic document detailing different technical changes in production .

Seems that many planes hs gone out production line when changes occured , some hv to return ...

Remi

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Hi, Don.

In short it is a list with overview of tecnical modifications to Bf 109 airframes.

The main value of course being that the list contains lists of the specific variants, Werknummer ranges and in several instances also the production company.

I have used the list to expand on my own database, especially connecting Werknummer ranges to production companies having this contemporary original document as reference.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Thank you, sir.

It is apparent that there is much there to comprehend, and it does appear to offer much to the community. Thanks to all for the clarification/explanation.

Don

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

hi andreas,

great stuff! thanks for showing it! does such lists also exist for other planes?

all the best
jim

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Jim,

Yes similar type of lists exists for other type of aircraft from other manufacturers but they can look quite different and can for example focus on a specifici technical upgrade or modification that should be applied retroactively on a number of versions of an aircraft, also giving W.Nr. of the aircraft in question and manufacturer. What is not included in these lists can sometimes be as interesting as what is included...

My own assumption is that the aircraft manufactures had very good knowledge on which aircraft received certain upgrades etc so that they could give the necessery support, and also inform the opperator (Lufthansa, Luftwaffe, export customer etc) of upgrades or changes that should or could be done on a certain version. It's the same today. As a consequence of this I think that it is possible that each manufacturer could have had an archive with details (card or similar) on in principle each aircraft that they build and delivered. Wonder where that ended up? The later is of course my own speculation... :-)

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Hi, Mikael!

You can consider your hypothesis as a valid one. These cards or documents were called "Lebenslaufakten".

A very well known list in the National Archives were drawn from a large collection of such documents located in one of the Erla repair facilities when overrun by the allies. As far as we know the originals were destroyed, the transcripts survived.

Where did they all go? No idea! They were to be kept with the airframe, I suppose by the technical staff of a unit in the field, sent with the airframe consignment documents to for example a repair facility.

Maybe some will pop up as a result of this discussion?

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Quite an interesting document endeed, but I should have a question.
First af all I don't speak german so I could be wrong, but what about the tail stiffeners list?
The famous Siegfried Schnell 's Bf 109 F-2 (W.Nr. 9553) is not in the list even if so fitted. Maybe the document shows only the planes upgraded after completion?

All the best.

Riccardo

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

One thing which I cannot find in these Änderungs-Anweisungen is the upgrading of 109F-2's central cannon from MG151/15 to MG151/20.

Does anyone have documentation on this retrofit?

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Hello!

The documents originate from Finnish archive. My guess is that the list includes only those which were thought to be relevant for G-2 and G-6 and all general ones. The two subtypes were used by Finnish AF. In any case the collection is incomplete what come to pages (Blatt) yet is all what was sent to Finland.


Cheers,
Kari

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Gentlemen,

There is nothing strange in this list. I found it already 35 years ago from the Finnish Military Archive and read the first two pages (Erläuterungen) to understand, how it is supposed to work.
This bunch of pages, which was mailed to the Finnish Air Force is simply a revision dated 1.7.1943 and contains pages 41-42, which have to be changed in the original list and pages 61-71, which have to be added to the original list. Next revision should have been published 1.10.1943 (four revisions per year).
Therefore, to get a complete picture of Bf 109 modifications, one has to have also all other pages, i.e.1-40, 43-60 and all pages published after page 71. I am sure, that also a few later revisions have been sent to the Finnish Air Force, but unfortunately they have not been saved in archives.
I strongly suggest that people, who live near big archives (NARA, IWM, Deutsches Museum etc) try to find out the complete list (also similar of other aircraft types). I tried to do that 35 years ago, but then it was impossible from Finland, when snail mail was the fastest way of communication (I had a telex equipment available, but all the archives had not). I believe, that the last revision status should be 1.1.1945 or at least 1.10.1944.
Also I hope, that somebody, who is fluent both in German and English, would translate the first two pages to be added to Andreas's site.

Best regards,

Matti

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

I'd be happy to contribute this. Please send me a PM, if it is really wanted.

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

I don't think it was an official retrofit, but it was certainly possible mechanically, given the close similiarity of the guns, but perhaps only at individual level..?

From interrogation of a Hauptmann (Gruppenkommandeaur of I/JG 26) brought down on 10 July 1941:

Re: Übersichtsliste der Änderungs-Anweisungen Bf 109
 

Thanks Andreas, to my Bf109 database

Joao Cabaco