Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

In the time frame March/April 1944, a F-5 Lightning on return from Austria landed on Vis Island,Yugoslavia due to engine problems. After cursory engine repairs, the Pilot (reportedly Chinese-American) took off only to have an engine quit on takeoff. He crashed and lingered a few days before dying.
I have read an account of this accident in two books, but neither provide sufficient detail to identify the pilot or the unit. I imagine the unit to be either the 3rd or the 5th PG, but have not found anything on this accident in neither the MACR listing or the overses USAAF Accident listing, where I'd imagine an account of the accident would most probably reside.

Can anyone help?

And a belated thanks to all who have helped resolve these minor mysteries over the last couple of months.

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hello,
It could not have been the 1st Fighter Group's 27th Squadron's 1Lt. Stanley Lau.
Alex

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

No, the account I found specifically identified the pilot as a Chinese_American flying a recon P-38 coming back from a mission over Austria.

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Well, after some time spent on the Internet, I am no closer to finding any information.
I have identified some of the Chinese-American fighter pilots of WWII (Frank Fong -359th FG, Stanley Lau - 1st FG, Kai Wau Kong -354th FG) but no recon pilots. I'll keep looking.

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

kaki3152,

Can you give me a reference to the "overseas USAAF Accident listing" you mention? I am looking for overseas accidents involving the 12th, 13th, and 15th Air Forces (and maybe others later).

Frank.

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Frank,

sure, I'll send you a PM with a link. Love your work.

Carlos

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hi kaki,

I stumbled upon this posting with a little bit of delay. In case you didn't find anything in the meantime, what I have on this is that an P-38 landed at newly-prepared landing grounds at Pliško Polje at Vis on 12 April 1944, bringing in the post from Bari. It was also the first Allied aircraft ever to have landed at Vis. As the plane took-off back to Bari, it burst into flame and crashed, falling on Partisans from the 2. platoon/1. brigade/26. Dalmatian division. Pilot and nine Partisans were killed, five Partisans were wounded.

Cheers,
Boris

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Boris,
I think I identified the pilot and airplane as Lt. John Kim,27th FS,1st FG who actually suffered severe wounds and died in the hospital. The only discrepancy I have is that the date of the incident is listed as April 13,1944.

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hi kaki,

The source that I have indicates that the accident didn't have to occur on the date when the plane arrived at Vis and bringing in the "post from Bari" with an Lightning doesn't seem probable as well. I would assume that the plane indeed landed at Vis for some trouble during the 12 April mission to Austria and crashed on the following day when trying to get back to Italy.

Cheers,
Boris

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Initially you correctly stated it was an F-5 presumambly of 5th PRG , I therefore believe is involving a P-38 of this group from San Severo rather than 1st FG or other of 15th AF Fighter Groups . I am looking into my records as into 5th Recon Sqd and will let u know

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

memorial for Lt Kim
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...724216&df=all&

that is a Korean Surname....

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hello,

http://digicoll.manoa.hawaii.edu/hwr...by.php&tid=83;

Alex

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hello,

http://genealogytrails.com/hawaii/ww2honor1.html

Alex

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hello,

http://www.wwiimemorial.com/registry...nt=1&tcount=53

Alex

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hello,

http://media.nara.gov/media/images/29/21/29-2096a.gif

Alex

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Lt John Kim 1st FG 27 FSQ is listed as KIA on Aprl.13,44 at page 167 by 1st FG history book, however it remains unclear if this was an F-5

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hello,

Interestingly, docs show no "KIA" or even "KIS" but "DOI" so died of injuries.

So 2Lt KIM was recovered from the wreckage alive but injured.

"AN ESCORT OF P-38'S" has Kim as "KIA 13th April 44" though,
and only that on the 13th the 1st escorted B-17's to Gyor, Hungary and they encountered some 40 enemy aircraft. Lt's Schweikert and Barlow each claimed a Me109.

Injuries received on the 13th from an aircraft crash or other cause from which he finally died ?
But if an aircraft, did it crash into the sea or on to Vis or one of the other nearby Island's ?
In any case it would have not been an accident so no accident report.
The aircraft was not lost so crew were not missing therefore no MACR.
The area was in Allied territory so no report as such, maybe a recovery Unit made a report at some later date ?

Alex

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Indeed on April 13,44 the target way Gyor second of and to my knowledge the 1st FG
didn't operate F-5's the recon version which operated by 5th PRG eventually few more
operated also by 82nd FG . I therefore believe that the P-38 in question was part of an
escort rather recon asset . If the report is true the flammed out engine may have
caused asymethric trust on take off thuse causing a VMCA leading to a take off stall
followed by crash possibly do to inability of the pilot to handle VMCA at low altitude.

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hello,
To recap, in post 1 it is noted that the pilot died after the reported crash at a later date which was the 13th April 44.
So the crash was before the 13th ?
What losses were there in April prior to the 13th ?

These 1st FG losses are known and I offer them to eliminate them from any search.
March 1944
18th - MACR 3357 - P-38H - 42-67065 - Lindhurst -27th FS.
23rd - ----------- - P-38H - 42-67080 - McIntosh - 27th.
28th - MACR 3580 - P-38H - 42-67035 - Hartwig - 27thFS.
28th - MACR 3642 - P-38H - 42-67067 - Rodolff - 27thFS.
29th - MACR 3641 - P-38H - 42-67027 - Brown - 27thFS.
30th - ---------- - P-38H - 42-67058 - Pettus - 94th.

April 1944
3rd - ----------- - P-38J - 42-104215 - Larson - 71st.
6th - ----------- - P-38H - 42-67030 - Shepard - 71st.
6th - MACR 3700 - P-38H - 42-67070 - Valley - 71st.
13th - --------- - ------ - --------- - KIM - 27th.

Other Losses -
March
1st - ---------- - P-38 - 42-66729 - Cook.
2nd - ---------- - P-38 - 41-7591 - Classford.
4th - MACR 2730 - F-5C - 42-67239 - Shore.
4th - MACR 2731 - F-5C - 42-65734 - Mailey.
11th - ----------- - F-5c - 42-67241 - Begnaud.
14th - ----------- - P-38 - 43-2451 - Hames.
14th - ----------- - P-38 - 43-2478 - Wood.
17th - MACR 3213 - P-38 - 42-13234 - Liles.
17th - MACR 3214 - P-38 - 42-13244 - Blackman.
20th - MACR 3217 - F-5B - 42-67355 - Gordon.
27th - ----------- - F-5A - 42-13122 - Tunnell.
28th - MACR 3509 - P-38 - 42--67093 - Kenney.
29th - MACR 3511 - P-38 - 42-12892 - Noel.
29th - ----------- - P-38 - 42-12947 - Wells.
29th - MACR 3367 - P-38 - 42-68165 - Tucker.
30th - MACR 3692 - P-38 - 42-13452 - Townsend.

April
2nd - ---------- - P-38 - 42-104049 - Carroll.
5th - MACR 3704 - P-38 - 43-2180 - Lindstrom.
6th - MACR 3952 - P-38 - 42-13228 - Lord.
7th - MACR 3954 - P-38 - 42-104057 - Crow.
7th - MACR 3705 - P-38 - 42-104017 - Zimmerman.
7th - ---------- - P-38 - 41-7549 - Plotts.
12th - MACR 3963 - F-5A - 42-13318 - Gravitt.
13th - --------- - P-38G - 42-13030 - Joley.

Alex

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

The AFHSO in DC sent me the following excerpt of the 27th FS diary:

12 April 1944 - 27th Fighter Squadron

"Penetration escort for B-24s was flown on the 12th by 10 P-38s led by 1/Lt
Francis Dawson, Mathews, Ala. to Bad Voslau aircraft assembly plant and
airdrome in Austria. Only five (5) enemy fighters were encountered, three (3)
of which were ME 109s with Hungarian Air Force markings. No claims, losses or
damage were reported. Excellent bomber formation and presence of high flying
P-47s over the target resulted in extensive damage to aircraft and
installations on the Bad Voslau airdrome. 2/Lt John J.C. Kim of Honolulu, HI
was forced to land on Vis Island landing strip for fuel enroute to base. In
attempting to take off again on the short strip, one engine failed and the
plane crashed from 200 feet about 3/4th of a mile from the end of the runway,
where a group of Yugoslav Partisans were walking. Eight (8) of the Partisans
were killed an twenty (20) injured. An R.A.F. Corporal was reported to have
pulled Lt. Kim from the burning plane, but he died on the14th as a result of
burns and other undetermined injuries. Lt. Kim was one of two pilots of
Chinese ancestry who joined the Squadron on 31 March 1944, and was considered
an unusually good pilot by his comrades. It was his second operational combat
mission."

Next to the definitive identification of Lt. Kim in this, the aircraft he was flying points to a P-38 after all.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Hello

Useful information , will you please name the book and the author ?

Thanks in advance

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Researcher,

Not from a book but quoted from a microfilm roll that's held at the AFHSO...

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Oh OK thanks and how can I access the site containg microfilms ?

Best Regards

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Researcher,

Start page is here: http://www.afhso.af.mil/questions/askahistorian.asp

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

As the initiator of this thread, I 'd like to thank all the people who have contributed.

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Leendert, I am familiar with the procedure, though not sure if they will grant access to their research data base, the reason I was asking is because there's a book named 27th FSQ War Diary by F.Lawson . At page 140 there are some remarks about Lt.Kim's fate,though your update is more detailed

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Researcher111,

The material being discussed is the collection of microfilms prepared many years ago at (what is now) the USAF Historical Research Agency. It has gone through several name changes. They brought in a contractor and told him to "start in the upper left hand corner, and microfilm everything". Which they did. Being a government contractor, it was low bid. There does not seem to have been a heavy investment in quality control. The original documents are all still down at USAFHRA at Maxwell AFB, and can be accessed there. They can still be purchased on microfilm, at $30/reel. I have encountered unreadable frames on the microfilm, and when I have asked if they could go to the original, and make a (Xerox) copy I have received back a perfectly readable piece of paper. I suggest that you do not purchase microfilm however, as, over the 30-40 years I have been researching I have found that the readability of the microfilms deteriorates. Several years ago they instituted a program to copy the microfilms to PDF, and they now sell the reels as a massive PDF file, for the same $30 price. I recommend purchasing the PDFs, as the PDF controls will allow you to blow the images up in scale, which can make them readable.

Knowing which reels to purchase however, can be a problem. The website http://airforcehistoryindex.org/ has a copy of the IRIS index to the holdings of USAFHRA as of 2003, which can be searched. Although the search mechanism is not obvious. You can request the raw data for the 2003 IRIS index from that website; it comes as a zip file with 9 MS Excel csv (comma separated values) files, totaling about 41meg. I requested it, and built myself an MS Access file from those files (and made it a little easier to search). There are instructions on the website for how to order films and PDFs (supplied on CD).

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: Identity of F-5 Lightning crashed on take off Vis Island -March/April 44
 

Frank

Thanks very much for the clarifications . As a matter of fact I am in touch with two agencies one National Personnel Record Center and the other AFRHS, both require
all applicants to go through lengthy security verifications by fax , in addition I live in Europe and they do warn in advance all parties regarding long delays. I am not really into microfilms but CD's primarily in getting files and photos of KIA and MIA airmen of the 9th and 15th AF's periods '43 and '44 . Once I was granted such access and sent them payments ,I suspect that this what they offer to the public may be already commercially available for for free download on the Net or for sale elsewhere. I never dealt with them before I've got general experiences with international archives, in most of the cases they don't have what one may be looking for but just casual stuff previously published elsewhere in same cases I ended up paying for just getting blank pages ( Russian military (TsAMO) & Rumanian military archives ). Luftwaffe and German military archives they reply rather fast but in my case due lack of relevant records it ended up being put on a holding pattern ending up with nothing at all. Of course I'll give it a try though I don't put much hopes on such Agencies.