RAF pilot training, 1940
 

During the BoB it has been said that RAF pilots went into combat with little flight time in the a/c.

I am curious as to pilot training in 1940. Can someone describe the pilot training coarse > ground school, flight school (primary hours, advanced hours), etc.

Thanks

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

The Canadian Aviation Museum has a pdf book that covers this topic in some detaill, look at Chapter 3 in particular. http://www.airmuseum.ca/refs/aerodrome_of_democracy.pdf

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Thanks Bill, very interesting.

To be more specific, I was looking for the training mainly during the BoB, and in GB.

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Can only help between Nov 39 & Jul 40.

= Tim

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

That would be great if you would Tim.

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Kutscha – not a huge help, I’m afraid, & not typical, because we were the last 20 Pre-war Cranwell Cadets-to-be. Cranwell had become an FTS & was full, so we had to start on Tiger Moths at 9 FTS, Ansty.

　http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ok/01cadet.jpg
What a soul-destroying waste of time. God knows how they filled in the ground time with talk??
Can’t recall the Exercises No1-22 – but they were 4 year-old stuff. In addition we did 2 Cross-countries, Spinning & 8 hrs Link Trainer.
40 hrs Dual, 34 hrs Solo, FOUR months!!
　
So on to Cranwell – Harts & then Hinds. Again, Exercises No1-22!! But we did do 16 cross-countries, 5 Air-ground firing, 2 Aerobatics, 7 Bombing with 25lbers, one Quarter Attacks & some Formation. Two night flights. 27 hrs Dual, 65 hrs Solo, 3 months. Instead of 3 peacetime years!!
Ground School – Engines, Theory of Flight, Map Reading, Parachute maintenance (?) - there must have been something else??
　
Fully trained – on to No1 Squadron, Northolt.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...yforbattle.jpg
18-26 July - Dual experience in Miles Master, Solo in Master.
Solo in Hurricane.
Climb to 29,000’, 2 Formation flights, 2 ‘Dogfights’, 1 ‘Attacks’, 1 Air Firing, 2 Sector Recce. 16 hours, then:

27 July Patrol St Catherine’s Point to cover de-beaching of Tanker.
30 July Patrol.
31 July Patrols x4
etc
15 August 'Destroyed' Me109 near Harwich. With hindsight - doubtful!
16 August Shot down!!
　
= Tim

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Hello Timothy
Thanks a lot for the interesting info!
So you have less flying time than Johnnie Johnson (205hours) when you were posted to your first first line sqn but more than Neville Duke (145.50h), but Neville was maybe put in some sort of "fast track", having got "Above Average" from EFTS and FTS.

Thanks again
Juha

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

More telling is the '16 hours' on Hurricanes, and almost no real combat practice.

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Hello Jim
IMHO under 16 hours, because the 16 hours incl. 2 flights in Miles Master.
Johnnie Johnson had 23 hours on Spitfire when he went to No 19 Sqn

On the other hand according to Rall’s memoirs, when he was transferred to 4./JG 52 on 20 Sept 39, he had 55 min, yes minutes, not hours, flight time in Bf 109, and that in D model. In the Staffel, which was a first-line Staffel, he got 10 hours in Bf 109E before his first combat sortie. He had spent 2 months in Werneuchen Fighter School, more or less equivalent to OTU, but most of time flying in Ar 68 in tight vic, only 5 gunnery exercises, but he cannot remember was even one air-to-air. He was introduced to Rotte and Schwarm flying only at 4./JG 52, he also flew 2 gunnery training flights in 4./JG 52 before his first combat sortie.

Yes, it is not so surprising that the first few combat sorties were often fatal to new pilots.

Juha

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Ah, but how old was he?

= Tim

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Hello Timothy
not sure who you mean but Rall was born on 10 March 1918.

Juha

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Guessed so - those extra 2 3/4 years beyond mine made all the difference in those days.

There weren't many boy Aces?

I mean - just look back on my photograph - do I look like a killer?

= Tim

PS Meant to add that we had no briefing on Tactics, effect of our Weapons, survival in France, Luftwaffe intentions.............etc.

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Hello Timothy
I agree, many of the RAF and Finnish AF aces were those pre-war regulars, on Finns probably most. On the younger ones; our No. 2, Wind (64½+10+2 confirmed+prob+dam) was born in 1919 as was also No. 8 Katajainen (30½+4+6). The youngest ones, born in 1921 or later were at least No. 10 Karhila (30¼+2+4) born in 1921, as were Alakoski (22+6+3), Leino (5+6+1), Pasila (8+1+2), Virtanen (6+2+0), Hillo (7⅓+1+0) and Trontti (5+1+1). Laitinen (9+1+0) and Nyman (6+0+0) were born in 1922 and Hattinen (4+2+3) and Keskinummi (4½+1+0) in 1923.

Juha

On 24 June 41 the Flight Leutenant of 2./LLv 24 (Brewster Buffalos) noticed that one of his pilots, Corporal Heimo Lampi, hasn't yet done his gunnery excercises so they began to build some ground targets for him and asked for an army co-op Fokker C.X to fly a target towing mission for Lampi on late afternoon 25 June 41, but Soviet SBs arrived earlier that day, Lampi got 2½ SBs of 201 SAP and other pilots and the F/Ltn decided that that will do and the F/Ltn phoned to the Army Co-op sqn to cancel the request for a target towing sortie.

Juha

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Nice one!

Finland? We almost got to Petsamo escorting the Russian Pe2s from Vaenga.

= Tim

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Thank you very much Tim for all your info.

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Hello Tim
at that time troops in Northern Finland were mostly German ones even if there were also some Finnish units, for ex some AA units, and the civilians were of course Finns. Also air defence was in German hands even IIRC just the 2./LLv 24 made a few missions up to White Sea,

Juha

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Thanks.

You may not have seen this one - good music!!

http://www.2gvsap.org/video/151_0805.wmv

= Tim

Re: RAF pilot training, 1940
 

Excellent Tim!
music was great but IMHO even better was those shots on your logbook and on that combat report. I should be able to visit Murmansk before this summer is over.

Juha