Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hello Martin,

20.08.40 : 2 Fw 200 took off from Bordeaux at 6.55 and 7.05 am

22.10.40 and 05.02.41 : sorry, no information

Regards
Marc

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hallo Marc,

Thank you very much for that helpful information. I have the impression that most or all Condor missions from Bordeaux began in the early hours of the morning. Is that correct ?

Regards,

Martin.

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Not necessarily. They would take off as & when tasked

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

In 1944 there are a number of deciphered messages warning friendly forces that a Fw 200 will be crossing the French coast at a particular time and returning (when they didn't go on to Norway) between two times.

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hallo Chris and Nick,

Thanks for that useful information. In the last few days I have been looking again at my notes taken from the Irish Defence Forces reports on this crash. I found something that might be of interest to Condor buffs. A diary belonging to the meteorologist on board, Reg. Rat. Dr. Erhard Herrstrom was recovered. It contained details of 3 flights he took part in;

29-12-1940 Start 540 (sic) Bordeaux, Land 1700, reporting on weather.
3-1-1941 Start 0612 Bordeaux, Land 1737, reporting on weather.
15-1-1941 Start 0617 Bordeaux, Land 1848, reporting on weather.

Hope this is of interest,

Martin.

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hi Martin , super topic . The take-off time I have for F8+KH is 5.00am , this I got from the Flugbuch of Fw.Ludwig Wochner who was the flight engineer on this Condor .

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hallo Schnellmeyer,

Thanks for that information. However it complicates matters again ! Two hours difference is significent but I am in no position to doubt it or determine which is the more accurate. Back to the drawing board !

Regards and thanks once more,

Martin.

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hello Denis (Schnellmayer)

I see you tracked down the 0015 data plate at last on the Axis History forum.

Lucky one that. Was it the same person you had been in contact with years before?

regards

Dennis

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Martin is quite right, back to the drawing board!

Kurt Mollenhauer (B) in conversation said take off was " around 5.30 am" ,
Hans Bell (Bf) in correspondence says " before dawn"
Kurt Kyck (Bf) in conversation said 4 am.
Ludwig Wockner (Bm) says 5 am, ie as mentioned by Schnellmeyer quoting from his flugbuch. A question now is when was the flugbuch written up. It was not on board the aircraft, which would be against orders. Was it written up sometime after his release from internment? Can we rely on the often quoted codes F8+KH and werke 0015?. I think not, even though I used to quote them myself. They may be correct in the final analysis but can we obtain a source in the meantime?

Marc may have solved the times if he can please quote a reliable source reference.

To add further confusion I believe that a third Condor left Bordeaux that morning but I do not have any more information.

I'll get my coat and run!!!!
Tony K

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

I figure we have different person here, the name on Axis site is Dennis J Foran. Schnellmeyer here on this site is Justin. If the person is the same it woulld help if the plate was put here too.
Merci, very good information here, thank you.
Swifte

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hello Swifte , yes we are one of the same .My name is Dennis J. Horgan , there was a mistake made on the Axis forum with my name . My first name is Dennis and second Justin . My surname is Horgan not Foran . After years of detailed research I am as sure as sure can be that the codes and Werks Nr. of the FW200 Condor that crashed in Ireland on 20.8.40 are F8+KH AND OO15 . I will post colour photos of the Werks Plate in the next few days , I also have detailed letter from three of the crew who were alive when I was in contact with them in the late 1980's and early 1990's , they also provided me with detailed information about their FW200 and prevoius missions . Hope this is of help .

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Thanks to you Schnellmeyer, is the foto of the plate the same as the foto on the axis site?
I would be very interested the other flights in that you have from Wochners flugbuch.
Merci Schnellmeyer.
Swifte

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

You are most welcome Swifte , sorry about any confusion. I had this plate in my possesion again last week and I took more photos of it plus another metal part of the FW200 which is stamped 0015 .I will post these photos in the next few days . On the plate were it is marked "Werk Nr" there are the numbers 306 0015 , I believe the numbers 306 is possibly a reference to a part of the aircraft and 0015 is the Werk Nr. .
I will also check the photocopies I made of Mr.Wochners Flugbuch and see what other information is there for you Swifte , I may PM you with this information.

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Schnellmayer. re dataplate marked "W.Nr. 306 0015" this not necissarily mean you have actual W.Nr. It should read 200 0015. The 3xx is number part of "Horizontal Stabilator, Elevator, Rudder, Ailerons, Landing flaps etc." I once saw Fw200 part plate and there W.Nr. on it did not match actual W.Nr. given for that crash. The difference of this Weser made part was 12, incidentally the number of planes built before 0001 series started. Only then the number matched!

However, on eBay is this photo, labelled as of 20 August 1940 Ireland crash
http://cgi.ebay.com/PHOTOGRAPH-DOWNE...efaultDomain_0

currently there are no bids!

Best regards
ed

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hi edNorth , thanks for your post . Like you I also believe that this plate is from a part of the Condor and is not as such the Werks Plate . This is a "Weser " plate , but I still think that the Werks Nr. from the Condor that crashed in Ireland on 20 August 1940 is 0015 . I have also done research on this crash plus the other FW200 that were in service at this time also , 0015 is possibly one of three that could have crashed here at that time , of course I cannot be 100% sure but I am still continuing to research this crash .
As for the photo on ebay , yes it is from this crash . It was taken by a local man at the time , he took over 20 such photos and all are different .I was lucky some years ago and got copies of these photos .

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Ok. I was not aware of the ongoing debate on Axis History Forum and do not wish be quoted there proving anyone´s point or not. My purpose in my post was only to point out that it could be a component plate.

In fact I´am still searching for photo of WFG Fw 200 plate I referred to earlier today. This likely is misplaced on my Hard Drive or in a old backup. Already an transcript (note) of it has come to light. But this has difference of minus 11 (i.e. -11, not +12) as I stated earlier. Sorry for this error. This has W.Nr. 306 0.129 and made 02.42. This reportedly came from W.Nr. 0140 that crashed in Norway, December 1942.

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hi edNorth , thanks for your honest post and dont worry about the on going debate on the Axis History Forum .Sadly there is a person who calls himself "Sean Dublin" and he continues to hijack this topic , I do not need to quote what people post to bring across my point .I know exactly what you meant by your post and yes it is a component plate . I am not a expert in this field as others claim but I have spent over 20 years researching this crash .
As for your PM yes I will help you of course , please give me a few days and I will PM you the details that you asked about .Again many thanks for your help .

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Schnellmeyer et a,l I received a phone call to say that the last survivor of the FW200 crash on 20 August 1940 Kurt Kyck passed away two days ago. The end of an era, RIP.
Tony K

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Ooops !!! Apologies Schnellmeyer i did not notice your posting in the obituary section.
Tony K

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hi gentlemen. Thank you for your posts. The WFG FW 200 part plate referred to earlier has not come to light, it may have been lost, but hope not. But another WFG plate (unfortunately I do not remember where this came from) just popped up by file search. This I belive is also part plate but is different in layout, also stamped at much later date.

Best regards
ed

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hi Tony , yes sadly Kurt passed away on friday . And with his passing goes a piece of history and as you rightly said "The end of an era" .
I spoke to Kurt's wife yesterday to offer her my deepest sympathy , Kurt will be buried on Monday after mass .
Thanks for the photo of the plate edNorth . I will be in touch.

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Greeting Schnellmeyer
Will you let us see the plate and the Wochner Flugbuch details as you promise ?
regard
Swifte

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hi Swifte , yes of course I will share this information with you .I will post up the photo of the plate later this week , I have friends over from Austria this week so I am tied up at the moment .

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Thank you schnellmeyer I like to look forward to it.
Swifte

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Hi Swifte , here is a scan of the FW 200 plate as promised .I will send you on the copies of the Flugbuch in due course , enjoy.

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

Thank you for picture,
Swifte

Re: Three FW200 Condor take-off times, 1940 and 1941
 

You are most welcome Swifte , hope you enjoyed the photo.