Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Does anyone have any further information of the following aircrew who flew with I/ZG 76 in 1940:

Uffz Jaenicke (pilot, 1 Staffel)
Lt Heinz Ihrcke (pilot, 2 Staffel)
Lt Hans-Dietrich Knoetsch (pilot, 2 Staffel)
Uffz Heinz Fresia (pilot, 2 Staffel)
Uffz Ernst Kalinowski (pilot, 2 Staffel)
Gefr Zwickl (BF, 2 Staffel)
Uffz Mende (BF 3 Staffel)
Lt Kubetzorek
Uffz Schellig
Uffz Schlecht
Uffz Juehrke

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Hi,

Unf.Jaenicke - was among the pilots from I/ZG76 which were picked up for their blind-flying experience to made up the "Sonderstaffel" equipped with Bf110 D-0s.
Information from "Zerstoerer The Me 110 and its Units in 1940" by J.J.Vasco and P.D.Cornwell page 18.

Regards

Robert

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Thanks Robert-I was aware of this but need to know what happened afterwards

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Hello Chris,

Uffz Jaenicke (pilot, 1 Staffel): I have an Ofw. Jaenicke who was with the 3./NJG 1 in July 1940 (together with Oblt. Boehmel, Oblt. Kettling, Lt. Bender, Ofw. Rossbach, Ofw. Schonherr, Fw. Mutschele and Fw. SCHLECHT. Some of those pilots seemed to have returned to the Zerstoerer, but others like Boehmel, Bender, Herzog, Lent and Schonherr stayed with the Nachtjagd-Gruppen.

Lt Heinz Ihrcke (pilot, 2 Staffel)
Lt Hans-Dietrich Knoetsch (pilot, 2 Staffel) > Knoetzsch became pilot in I.NJG 3 and was later Gruppenkommandeur.

Uffz Heinz Fresia (pilot, 2 Staffel) > II.NJG 1
Uffz Ernst Kalinowski (pilot, 2 Staffel) > II.NJG 1
Gefr Zwickl (BF, 2 Staffel)
Uffz Mende (BF 3 Staffel)
Lt Kubetzorek
Uffz Schellig
Uffz Schlecht > see my first comment about Jaenicke.
Uffz Juehrke

It is not much but the reference to the blind flying training course does make sense: it would explain why in my inventory of I.NJG 1 flying personel people show up who returned to the Zerstoerer and were killed or captured during the Battle of Britain.

Wishing you all the best from Venlo, Marcel Hogenhuis (Venlo airfield in WW-2, I.NJG 1)

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76, Ihrke
 

Hello Chris,

Oblt. Heinz Ihrke became Oberleutnant on 1th June 1940, he came to the II.NJG 1 on 15th April 1942 from the Erg.St./NJG 1 and went to the II.NJG 2 some days later: 26th April 1942.

All the best, Marcel

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Marcel: Ul Ketetling never went to be a night fighter pilot, Jakob Bender did, as did Hermann Rossbach (1 Staffel, killed 20 Jan 41), Johann Schoenherr (1 Staffel), Helmuth Muetschele (1 Staffel, killed with 4/NJG 1 9 Sep 40). I have all 4 of Kettling's Flugbuchern but the months after April 40 are incomplete

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Hi Chris: About a year ago I did a google search on Heinz Ihrcke,and an article came up that was apparently written by him. It was rather short,and without dates,but it made reference to his flying in the campaign against Greece( I assume with II/ZG-76?).It also makes reference to him being shot down(with his bf. killed)as a nightfighter,but again, No dates.I'll search my paper files to see if I can locate it. I tried to search Google just now,and nothing came up. I know this isn't much help,but thought I'd mention it. Cheers. Dean

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Bf 110D-2, 3376, Schlecht, Fw. Wilhelm, , II., NJG 1, , , , , 13-May-41, Injured in crash., , Nachtjagd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Foreman, 1941-The Turning Point, II, p.214, , Buberg, 40%, H

Only guy I can find in my database.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Dean/Jim: Many thanks-it fills in yet more blanks and yet another loss not mentioned in the Balss book. I would be interested in pinpointing the Ihrcke report

Re: Kettling
 

Hello Chris,

Oblt. Ulrich Kettling is listed with the 3./NJG 1 in July 1940 with some other pilots from I.ZG 76. So, if his Flugbuch is not complete after April 1940, how can you be sure that he was NOT with the nightfighter arm?

On the same pages I have for July 1940 the following pilots with the I.NJG 1 that might have had a Zerstoerer background. The 1./NJG 1 (left behind in France to form the nucleus of Erpr.Gr.210) is not listed.

In the 2./NJG 1:

Uffz. ?? Hansberg, pilot
Ogfr. ?? Neumann, Bofu
Fw. ?? Puschnerus, pilot
Fw. Otto Wiese, pilot
Uffz. Hubert Winter, Bofu
Uffz. ?? Nölter, pilot
Gfr. ?? Lux, Bofu
Ofw. ?? Wilkening, Bofu
Uffz. ?? Krause, Bofu with Puschnerus
Gfr. ?? Reinisch, Bofu with Wiese
Uffz. ?? Richter, Bofu
Uffz. ?? Baumann, Bofu with Nölter

In the 3./NJG 1:

Fw. Wilhelm Schlecht, pilot
Ogfr. Herbert Seifert, Bofu, KIA when in 4./NJG 1, KIA 9-5-1941
Uffz. Herbert Mosel, Bofu with Bender, KIA when Bofu Mutschele 4./NJG 1
Uffz. Horst Hoffmann, Bofu with Schönherr
Ogfr. Karl Lorey, Bofu, POW April 1940 but listed in July 1940 with 3./NJG 1
Lt. Helmut Lent, pilot, in October 1940 to II.NJG 1
Oblt. Ulrich Kettling, pilot
Ogfr. Fritz Volk, Bofu with Kettling
Uffz. ?? Stolper, Bofu with Hansen
Ofw. Johan Schönherr, pilot
Oblt. Gerhard Böhmel, pilot, went to Stab NJG 1, KIA 28-2-1942
Ofw. Hermann Rossbach, pilot, KIA 19-1-1941
Fw. Helmut Mutschele, pilot, KIA 9-9-1940 with 4/NJG 1

For birthdates and first names you might possibly have additional info that would be appreciated much!

All the best, Marcel

Re: Kettling
 

Not much. Chris, are you going to cover the Polish Campaign as well?

Lt. Helmut Lent, pilot, in October 1940 to II.NJG 1

1939 with I/ZG76 one kill in Poland with Bofu Kubisch.

Oblt. Gerhard Böhmel, pilot, went to Stab NJG 1, KIA 28-2-1942

1939 with I/ZG76 one kill in Poland

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Marcel-Thanks. Ul Kettling is a personal friend and has never mentioned being part of 3/NJG 1 but I will be speaking to him tonight (65th anniversary of his shooting down) and will ask him.

The 2/NJG 1 names are not familiar to me in respect of I/ZG 76. The only christian name I can add is Fritz Stolper (BF to Kettling before Hansen) who was killed in Nov 43. I will look tonight for extra information for you

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek: I have all of the I/ZG 76 kills in Sep 39 plus their losses. I have 4 logbooks from this time as well. Anything I ncan help with/you help me with?

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Hello Chris,

We certainly could open a chat connection!;)
Now I understand why you were so convinced that Kettling was not in the Nachtjagd! There are two possible explanations for this: Herr Kettling was only with the 3/NJG 1 for a very short time (this short time may have faded from his memory as it would have been with me after some years). Another theory: somehow he shows up in an inventory of 3/NJG 1 pilots but before this posting became official, he and other comrades from I.ZG 76 continued to fight in their Zerstoerer unit. I have my doubts about that: some of the listed names have been in the 3/NJG 1 before this Staffel was renamed in 4/NJG 1.

What ever may come out about your conversation with Kettling, tomorrow I will send you a scan of the relevant page from this I.NJG 1 history with all those names.

A revealing and interesting thread! It helps me to understand the origins about 'my' I.NJG 1 for a great deal.

Best wishes, Marcel

Re: Huchel
 

Hello Chris,

I found out that Huchel was succeeded by Hptm. Ruppel as "Major beim Stabe". The date was in February 1941 because Ruppel stayed with the II.NJG 1 until 1th November 1941 when from the 4./NJG 1 of this Gruppe a new unit was created: II.NJG 2 (in November 1942 renamed in IV.NJG 1).

I will keep on searching! Marcel

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Chris
I am most interested in any accounts and photos. I can help with the Polish accounts and photos, there is a number of them. I am awared of existence of a report concerning Nagel's loss but I do not have a copy.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Marcel

Ul Kettling was never posted to 3/NJG 3 and found it quite amusing to be told he was on a night fighter unit!

1/ZG 76's number was 53591 so any NJG 1 casualties that have this number was with them. Of your list:

Schlecht-his name appears on a letter written by the whole Staffel to Kettling Winter 1940-41
Seifert-nothing
Mosel-+ 9 sep 40
Hoffmann-christian name Horst
Lorey-Nothing apart from he was Karl Nr 53591/20
Nothing else on the others

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek: I have 9 kills for I/ZG 76 on 2 Sep 40 (all PZL P11), 9 on 5 Sep (4 x PZL P23, 2 x PZL P11, 2 x PWS 26 & Lublin R13), 3 on 6 Sep (all PZL P11), 8 on 9 Sep (all PZL P11) and 2 on 11 Sep (PZL P23 & PWS 26). The only losses I have were Oblt Christoph Nagel and Gefr Ernst Lochbaum (latter +), Uffz Helmuth Muetschele & Gefr Kurt Blum (latter +) and Lt Gerhard Boehmel (and presumably Uffz Enno Gruschwitz) on 2 Sep. The combat was in the Lodz area and Lochbaum buried initially 5 km south of Pabianice

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Chris
I have to do some digging and checking but here are few comments, mostly from memory.
One of the Mes was reputedly downed in the morning. Remaining two went down in a well known dog fight over Łódź Widzew airfield. III/6 Dywizjon was involved in this combat - one of the pilots is still alive near London - I may give you his address if you like. Nagel was downed by Główczyński and Koc, possibly also shared by other airmen. A long story. There are several photos, including a P.11c with a turkey emblem, which was downed in a very this combat. Poles lost 1 P.11 destroyed and one damaged - likely write off. BTW They were all claimed as P-24s.

No fighter losses.

No fighter losses that fit.

No fighter losses that fit.

I think there were more I/ZG76 - I have to check my records.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek: I would be most interested to contact this man. The claims on 2 Sep 39 were 1000-1005; 1615-1625 & 1700-1710. I have a note that AM 2 Sep, they escorted KG 4 to attack 3 airfields near Deblin and destroyed 11 ac on the ground. PM they mixed it over Lodz and lost the 3 ac. The 3/ZG 76 logbook I have states 1448 - 1737 north of Deblin whilst the 1/ZG 76 logbook states 1623-1755 Lodz

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Hello Chris,

I was surprised with the number of I.NJG 1 casualties who had that number 53591 and hopefully you are too! Before presenting those names just one question: is there a list of such "unit related" numbers like 53591 ? Where can these be found?

Well, from my collection of Namentliche Verlustmeldungen I found these people with number 53591 under their names:

Uffz. Hans Betthäuser (Bofu 3/NJG 1 with Fw. Schlecht, Rossbach), KIA 19-1-1941
Oblt. Werner Hansen (St.Kpt. 3/NJG 1), KIA 10-2-1941
Lt. Jakob Bender (pilot 3/NJG 1)
Uffz. Fritz Grundmann (Bofu 3/NJG 1 with Ofw. Wegener) both KIA 28-6-1941
Ogf. Werner Vonjahr (Bofu 3/NJG 1 with Oblt. Schmitz), WIA 14-3-1942
Ogf. Albrecht Risop (Bofu 3/NJG 1 with Oblt. Johnen, KIA 26-3-1942
Fw. Walter Gross (pilot 3/NJG 1). KIA 13-4-1942
Oblt. Erich Kuhnla (pilot 3/NJG 1), KIA 28-9-1943 with JG 11
Ofw. Karl Wieland (pilot 1/NJG 1), KIA 13-1-1943
Lt. Heinz Oloff (pilot 2/NJG 1), WIA 2-3-1944
Uffz. Josef Schaffer (2/NJG 1, Bofu with Oloff), KIA 2-3-1944

Here is the compleet listing for the 3./NJG 1 on 22nd July 1940:
(pilot, Bofu)
Hansen - Stolper
Lent - Kubisch
Böhmel - Seifert
Kettling - Volk
Bender - Mosel
Herzog - Gross
Jaenicke - Grundmann
Rossbach - Lorey
Schönherr - Hoffmann
Mütschele - Gotter
Schlecht - Betthäuser

As you see, many names continued to be in the Nachtjagd so if we did not have Kettlings testimony, it would be perfectly make sense from this listing that he also was a brief period destined to become (or be) a nightfighter pilot. Perhaps it is worthwhile to ask him whether he can remember to have been in a unit with the crews mentioned above.

Keep in mind that I am not a boldheaded person, haha! All the best,

Marcel

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Chris
The man is Franciszek Kornicki of 162 Eskadra Myśliwska. Quite well known man in Polish aviation circles. I cannot say if he flew the mission but if not, he was on the ground. I will send you his contact details by e-mail over a few days.
I will attach my file with compilation of German claims in Poland, I hope of some use. Combats of ZG76 are quite confusing, Marius Emmerling attempted some links but I do not trust his research. He claims one of the Me 110s was downed in the morning combat, but I cannot confirm any such battle according to my sources.
The afternoon combat seems the show of 1. & 2./ZG76, rather miserable in the result.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Hi Folks: Chris, sorry, so far no luck tracing that article on Ihrcke. Regarding Jaenicke, curious about first name? Assuming, as it hasn't been mentioned yet, that its a bit of a mystery. Any chance of a connection with Jaenicke with JG-2, May/June/40? Regards: Dean

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Marcel: Thanks for this-I will revisit my listing tonight. Kettling will remember most of these as they are nearly all 1/ZG 76.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek: Would this be 'Tony' Kornicki who lives in Sussex? If so, I will have his address. I would be interested to see what else you have, time permitting on your side

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Dean: Thanks. I doubt if it is the same person!

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

As far as I know he is known as Franek among Britons. I am not sure about Sussex, I have only briefly met him in Warsaw. He is a well known person in the PAFAssn, so I think it is the man you know.
I will drop you an email later today. I have found another loss in the German returns, on 9 September.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Hi Franek,
what do you mean with "I do not trust his research"?!:mad: Why don`t you do that?

Hi Chris,
did you get my e-mail?

Regards,
Marius

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek!
where is written one Bf 110 was downed in the morning combat?!:confused:

Marius

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Sorry, I was writing from memory, it is written in Michulec's book.

I think I have expressed it all in my letter to the Lotnictwo magazine. You draw your conclusions definetely too far away, having in mind available documents. Ignoring Polish documents is another matter, which adds to the general picture, however.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek,
I do not ignore Polish documents. Why do you think this?
I am comparing German documents and Polish sources, that`s all.
Could you give an example for drawing conclusions too far away...?

Marius

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

This was discussed in my letters - you ignored most if not all of the period documents of III/4 Dywizjon. Pniak's report of 4 September for example. Otherwise there was your ridiculous comment that there is no reson to dig in Sikorski Institute archives - actually there is still a lot of documents to be extracted from there, even concerning the best researched fighter aviation.

This was also discussed in lenghth in both my letters, published and not published. This concerned eg. combats on 2 and 4 September.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek,
the books title is: LUFTWAFFE over Poland. So I choose the German archives and not the Sikorski Institute (I didn`t wrote about the Polish squadrons!!). There was no ridiculous comment, but only the fact I couldn`t dig in both. By the way I was searching for German documents and German archives just were more interesting (see also the title...Luftwaffe...).

I read about the III/4 documents in Cynk`s book and didn`t ignored them. Who tell you I did? (by the way Cynk was digging in the Sikorski Institute). I`m very sorry, but there was nothing that could changed my statements about claimed or lost German aircraft. What do you mean with Pniak`s report? Was there something different? Do you mean the aircraft he has seen (Do 17)?

I asked for an example concerning my book, not the article on III/4. I sent an answer to Lotnictwo, did you get it?
You wrote you are not trusting my research in Jagdflieger, right?
Marius

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Marius

I would agree but you attempted to write a story of the campaign rather than the air force. You continuously reffer to both the Polish airmen and the Polish sources, the latter being a really interesting mix. Your comment was extremally clear, that you do not see the point(!) to research Polish archives, as it was already done by others, and that the books are good enough source. Nothing more wrong, as PAF was only partially researched and the published sources quote only parts of available documents. Comment especially ridiculous in spite of your accusations of Mr Cynk, that he did not use any primary German documents.

Oh, I have learned that the one may not expect you change your statements. The point is that there are Polish documents and they do show

He has seen twin engined aircraft and this and other documents strongly suggest those were Me 110s.

I wrote about your research in general. I have received your reply and even answered to it but I was told that you withdraw your letter. No wonder.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek,
I am very surprised that you better know what I wanted to write about!
I never wrote the Polish books are enough source. But German archives were most important for my work. I repeat, the title of my books is LUFTWAFFE... and my books mainly describe the German action, day for day, hour for hour.

Indeed I think I wan`t find much more in the Sikorski Institute (than in Polish books) that could clear up more losses on German aircraft. Luftwaffe lost total 303 aircraft in September 1939 and I have found working here in Germany the fate of almost 300 of them. So what shall I look for in London?

Polish documents are even confirming many German documents, but you just don`t want to accept this. According to German documents you can show where the Polish documents are discoloured and overclaimed.

Until day there is no evidence that Bf 110 were engaged on 4.9. (I wrote about this, see German claims... post).

So you wrote about my research in general (?!). Franek, this is much to less to take your statemnets serious. I think you are making some kind of propaganda.
And somebody says not the truth about my answer to your letter. I didn`t withdraw it. Lotnictwo did not published it and later I agreed with their decision. That`s all.
(you can mail your answer to me if you want)

Marius

Re: HEINZ FRESIA Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Hi Chris !
Database Entry of http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche

Maybe this one is YOUR "Heinz Fresia" ?
Fresia, Heinz Leutnant 04.11.1915 (Bad Frankenhausen)
death/loss 26.12.1944 at "near Mecher"
Grave:
Block R Grave 218A, Kriegsgräberstätte in Sandweiler (Luxemburg)

and here an internet article mentioning his name:
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index...e/15-salee.inc

bye,
FrankieS

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek,
I mean the answer you wrote to Lotnictwo magazine.

Marius

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Hi Frankie,
Fresia flew in Poland 1939 with 2.Staffel/ZG 76 and was in the rank of Unteroffizier.

Marius

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

I do not know what you wanted to write, I know what have you written.

Mainly?

Documents showing air combats from the Polish perspective - you would not write such a nonsenses as you did in III/4 article.

Overclaimed reports - that is something new. Perhaps it is completely opposite and Polish documents show inaccuracies in the German reports?

There is but you do not accept it.

Call it what you want.

I cannot, I do not have your address.

Re: Aircrew from I/ZG 76
 

Franek,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius
I am very surprised that you better know what I wanted to write about!

I do not know what you wanted to write, I know what have you written.

Really? I think you did not read my books. You even cannot give the page number of statements you are writing about here (for example Polish pilots as cowards or murderers?!).

Quote:
I never wrote the Polish books are enough source. But German archives were most important for my work. I repeat, the title of my books is LUFTWAFFE... and my books mainly describe the German action, day for day, hour for hour.
Mainly?

???
Please read the book, you will see it.


Quote:
Indeed I think I wan`t find much more in the Sikorski Institute (than in Polish books) that could clear up more losses on German aircraft. Luftwaffe lost total 303 aircraft in September 1939 and I have found working here in Germany the fate of almost 300 of them. So what shall I look for in London?
Documents showing air combats from the Polish perspective - you would not write such a nonsenses as you did in III/4 article.

Do you have a single one evidence that Luftwaffe lost more aircraft to III/4 than I wrote in the article? If not you cannot write about nonsenses and similar things.


Quote:
Polish documents are even confirming many German documents, but you just don`t want to accept this. According to German documents you can show where the Polish documents are discoloured and overclaimed.
Overclaimed reports - that is something new. Perhaps it is completely opposite and Polish documents show inaccuracies in the German reports?

Until now there wasn`t published anything of the Polish reports that could show inaccuracies in German reports. All you say is very hypothetical and we cannot work with. By the way, even if you would be right and could find some more aircraft lost to Polish fighters, where I don`t believe it could achieve more than 5, you never could reach 100 destroyed German aircraft as wrote Cynk. Please remember, I have found some 40-45 (with London archives - for your personal wish - perhaps maximally 50). How will you explain the abyss?

Quote:
Until day there is no evidence that Bf 110 were engaged on 4.9. (I wrote about this, see German claims... post).
There is but you do not accept it.

Okay, where is the evidence? If you will give me an other reliable source than the report of Pniak I will accept it. By the way Pniak spoke of two-engined aircraft.

Quote:
So you wrote about my research in general (?!). Franek, this is much to less to take your statemnets serious. I think you are making some kind of propaganda.
Call it what you want.

I call it propaganda, because you do not operate with sources, but only with metaphysical statements.

Quote:
And somebody says not the truth about my answer to your letter. I didn`t withdraw it. Lotnictwo did not published it and later I agreed with their decision. That`s all.
(you can mail your answer to me if you want)
I cannot, I do not have your address.

Okay, let it be.

Many regards,
Marius