Ju88 822577
 

This plane has crashed on 21/22.Jan 1944, according to an AI2g doc. wore the STKZ NI+RA who has more about it

??

Rémi

Re: Ju88 822577
 

Hi Remi,

F1+BL of 3/KG76 822577 hit by AA crashed Lower Chantry Lane Canterbury at 0450hrs. Ff Uffz Kurt Matchin, Bf Ogef. Bernard Lugering, Bd Ogef Werner Clauss baled out POWs, B Uffz Andreas Marliot baled out found dead,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Ju88 822577
 

Many thks Brian

Rémi

Re: Ju88 822577
 

What does Bd stand for? Don't recall seeing that crew designation before.

Re: Ju88 822577
 

The Bd ofton appears on NVMs in the crew position normally shown as Bs. As I understood things the Luftwaffe had formally trained air gunners designated Bs, and also air gunners who had weapons training but not the full air gunnery course (Bd possibly standing for Bord Dienst?). I believe there were variations on the air-gunners badge which indicated the difference. That is as I understand it, if that is not the case anymore information welcome.

Re: Ju88 822577
 

Bd=Bordwart.

Junker

Re: Ju88 822577
 

As well as wireless operators (Bordfunker) who also manned a gun, as in Ju 87 crewmen that I met. What I've never seen though is a dual designation like the RAF's WOp/AG.

Bordwart = Bordmechaniker?
 

And is that the same as Bm = Bordmechaniker (Flight Engineer)?

Regards,

Marcel

Re: Ju88 822577
 

From what I have seen Bordwart is shown as Bw being a similar role to Bm or Bordmechaniker. As Nick says I think most Lufwaffe aircrew had a secondary role as a gunner but were only designated by their main role.

Re: Ju88 822577
 

Thanks Brian. I have seen Bw and Bm lord knows how many times in recording losses. I do not recall ever seeing Bd before. Interesting.

Re: Ju88 822577
 

I think it may be hard to be definite on this Bd. I had been told it was gunner who had not undertaken the full gunnery course but would be awarded a gunners badge after so many missions. Looking through the Steinbock NVM's II/KG6 records all its gunners as Bd, but the book 'Wir flogen Gegen Westen' shows them as Bs. A Gunner of KG40 taken POW on 21-1-44 is reported on the 'K' as having no formal gunnery training but is shown as a Bs ( perhaps he had the required no. of missions in). Whether or not there is a definite difference in trainng Bs or Bd indicates someone acting as a gunner.

Re: Ju88 822577
 

I have the Bd=Bordwart from NVM from KG 30. In these you have both Bs and Bd. Bordwart is instead of Bm=Bordmechaniker.

The Bordschütze is the only fully trained gunner in the crew, have gone through Bordschützenschule. All other have gone through Lehrgänge or have on the job training.

Junker