341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hi

I wonder if anyone can tie a serial number to Spitfire IX NL-H of 341 Sqn, flown by Christian Martell on Ramrod 73 on May 14th 1943.

A bit of along shot perhaps, but you never know...!

Many thanks

Simon

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hi Simon,

Where do you learn that it is the NL-H ? Form 541 for n°341 for the most of year 1943 do not hold any serial or individual letter....

Bertrand

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hello Bertrand

Apologies for not replying sooner.

On the combat report filled in by Martell on that date, it states "Spitfire IX H" - I'm guessing the H is the aircraft's individual letter?

I'll get

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hi Simon,

I have the french translation of this combat report and it is written Spitfire IX A. Could your "H" is a deformed A ?

Must to be check !

Bertrand

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hello again Bertrand

No, it's definitely an H. Perhaps your A is a deformed H! :)

The form I have is a 'Personal Combat Report', or Form 'F'. The information has been added using a typewriter, and it's a good photocopy, so it's clearly legible. Under the heading 'Type and mark of our aircraft', the entry is 'Spitfire IX H'.

I'm of course guessing the H doesn't refer to the type or mark of Spitfire?

Best regards

Simon

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hello.

I can confirm from an original combat report it is indeed H as it is written in personal combat report that you can find at Kew (Air 50/407)

But in the Log book of Martell at the date of 14 may 1943 Martell made a test flight and a mission who he claimed a Fw 190 on.... NL-C

In the other side in my different discussions with Pierre Clostermann between 1998 and dec 2005, he told me that he flew in may 43 on NL-B, NL-A and NL-C specially the 11 may during the Circus 295 leaded by J E Johnson at the return he made a not good (he said a special) landing.

After that Martell was not happy and asked to him to make, the same day, 2 flights of aerobatics on Spit Mk V that he did and to give him 5 days for leave. Clostermann stayed in the base.

During these 5 days he made some local flights and finished 1 or 2 articles for Flight magazine on the grass of the dispersal that he told me

He remembered also during these five days off ,the test of his plane (NL-C) with Martell, and the same day the return of Martell with the first victory 341 Sqn. Alsace. Clostermann told me that he was so happy that he wrote a wrong date in his log book: " le 13 le cap. Martell obtient la première victoire du squadron"

With this victory Martell keep as his personal kite the NL-C ( during May, June and little July) and Clostermann a new NL-B. (not BS538 the first one, ex 340 Sqn./GW.K damaged the 5 may 1943 by Pierre Laurent)

To answer about the serial of the kite of Martell for this 14 may 1943, I don't know.

thank you

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Thanks for the reply Many. Was NL-C the Spitfire Vb AA846? I can't figure why NL-H was entered in the combat report - maybe simply just a typing error?

There don't seem to be many photos of 341 Sqn Spitfires around. I'd have thought they'd be a good subject for the newsreels and newspapers?

You make a reference to Martell's logbook - does that mean it still exists? I'd be very interested in getting some more information from it if it does.

Best regards

Simon

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hello Simon.

The Log Book exist of course but it is in private hands, I can't say any more.

The almost personal code of his all Spitfire was C for Christian (Martell)

For AA846 it is a NL-C, he claimed damaged on 30 dec 1943 2 Fw 190 but unfortunatly it was a Mk V.

it is only a idea but he flew one NL-C till mid july 43 a Mk IXa and after a Mk IXb EN??? I repeat only an idea...

Thank you.

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Thank you for the extra info Many.

That's a shame about the log book, but I guess so many are in private hands today it's not too surprising. I thought it may have been in 'official' hands.

I suppose it's a good idea that his aircraft carried the code letter C (I wondered if he perhaps used L for his real name of Lucien Montet). But as his Spitfire IX MH388 at 80 OTU was coded CM, it's quite a good bet as they say.

Regards

Simon

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hello Simon

It is not a shame when a document is in good hands and it is the case for this document.

It not a shame when the owner of this document accept to show it to an historian, because he knows, he will use the infos for a future publication.

But it is a shame when you know someone who has an info only one, that you need, about a pilot and you have all documents (Copies of log books, of his diaries, photographs of his medals, scans of all photographs and copies of official documents) about this pilot. It is a great shame when he use this info as a power... But it is another story....

To come back to the code letter, Lucien Montet can't use his French name, because during the first attempt of Escape he was arrested by Spanish and given to Vichy authorities. Too dangerous for him...


In fact there no rules about the choice of the personal code letter. Naturally it depends of the Flight. it is often a choice against the superstition or like a Talisman.


Only one exemple: For the Cdt Mouchotte, it was always the L because he began in 340 sqn. with this letter. When he was S/L in 341 Sqn he kept this letter.
For one he said it was L for Liberty, for another one he said the L is the letter of the middle of the alphabet and as it I must be in the middle of my pilots. In a letter sent to his mother, he has written he was happy to fly in own kite, he feel protected....


I can ask you Simon why do you look for this info?

Thank you.

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hello again Many

I meant it was a shame that the log book is not more easily available to access, like it would be if it were in a public museum or archive. I suppose that it has survived at all is a miracle, and if it's in good hands then it's good news.

I know that many people who collect items such as these like to keep them to themselves - I suppose it's like people who collect works of art or other rare items, and keep them locked away, only to be viewed by themselves!

My interest in Christian Martell is that he commanded 80 OTU (Operational Training Unit) which was based at RAF Morpeth in Northumberland in 1945. RAF Morpeth is only about 5 km from my house. As I'm sure you're aware, he was later killed in a crash at RAF Ouston, which is about 20 km from here. One of my main interests is local aviation history, so naturally Christian Martell has become part of this interest.

Best regards

Simon

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hello again Bertrand

Did you have a chance to check?

Regards

Simon

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Christian Martell flown only twice time on a Spit IX coded "H" ....in march 1943.

I confirm he was on NLC on 14 may 1943. Serial of this A/C has not been yet identified.

Bertrand

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Bertrand

Many thanks for the reply - it is much appreciated.

Best regards

Simon

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Bertrand and Many,

Can you share with us the codes of the Spit. IX's with which Martell made his other claims on 18 May, 27 July, and 23 & 24 September? Perhaps also in NL-C?

Thanks,
Tom

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Hello Tom

As I already said in NL-C for all the dates you have mentionned

Thank you.

Re: 341 Sqn Spitfire NL-H serial?
 

Thanks, Many, for clarifying that.

Regards,
Tom