Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

I idly watched a bit of the annual showing of the 1969 BofB film, but could take no more when two converted Percival Proctors playing at Stukas, and radio-controlled Stuka models, were shown glide-bombing the Ventnor Chain Home facility with unerring accuracy and to the noise of sirens and without swing-down bomb cradles.
See - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBO61qg-kc

There were many Germans in the cast, even speaking German to each other, and many obvious efforts had been made to achieve accuracy, going as far as destroying a WWII hangar at Duxford, but I've resigned myself never to seeing a realistic vertical Stuka attack portrayed on film.
Why is that, I wonder?

Tony

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

Interesting to note that stuka pilots were not in favour of the sirens and in the case of I./St.G 3. all pilots decided to remove the sirens from the planes since the French campaign. The reasons: 1) the propellered sirens slightly reduced the airspeed of normal flight. 2) Even at normal flight the sirens also made a noise that the crews did not like.

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

That's ignoring the really critical inaccuracies: the Squadron Leader's cottage has a 1960s glass front door and electric bell-push, as well as an up-and-over metal garage door. That lot would have cost about £5 to disguise!

Oh, and when the bombers are heading across the North Sea, the formation leader's callsign is "Tomate Eins" (Tomato One) which comes up on the subtitles as "Tomato Heinz" — perhaps the translator was fond of tinned food?

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

As I recall it, Adolf Galland was technical advisor to this production.

Regards

Mikkel Plannthin

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

To attempt to answer this issue, I made a quick review of a book I read thirty years ago:

Mosley, Leonard. The Battle of Britain - the making of a film (London: Weidenfeld and Nicholson, 1969). ISBN 297 17909 8

The above book emphasizes that Adolf Galland was the primary, if not sole, official ex-Luftwaffe advisor. However, Theo Osterkamp was also involved in the making of this picture, although in what capacity is uncertain. I expect that Galland was the interface between the film makers (Saltzman, Guy Hamilton, Ben Fisz) and the Germans. There are references in the book to Galland checking with veterans on what actually happened to critique this or that perceived excess in the script. There were also disagreements on the basic facts, something which is better known today but an issue that still lingers on in some respects.

Thus one may conclude that the film had one official Luftwaffe veteran advisor but many "hidden" ones unofficially.

Regarding the Stukas...

Yes, the inadequate representations of this unique aircraft type is quite grating (as are the highly wrong engines on the Bf 109s and He 111s!) but the film maker's options were extremely limited at the time. They could hardly build accurate replicas let alone make them dive! By today, there are some options:

In the mid 1990s I was at an airshow at Elmira/Corning airfield ( later home to the National Warplane Museum) and I set my disbelieving eyes on a half (?) size Stuka. It had some simplifications, particularly in the engine area, but on the whole it was a valiant effort. Incredibly, the fellow who owned and built it was a local guy, Dick Kurzenberger. I looked him up in the phone book and asked him why he built it. He responded that he had been told that no private person could make such a thing and he wagered that that he could! Later I saw and photographed the thing flying along. He also stated that he flew the thing for battle re-enactment societies (presumeably themed WWII and not Civil War!).

Another option now would be to use detailed and accurate radio controlled models. Last year I discovered that a small local firm, Kondor Model Products, makes a beautiful Bf 110 (7 foot wingspan) and a Ju 87B (80 inch wingspan), a Do 335 (84 inch wingspan) among other things. Take a look at www.kmp.ca

Of course, nowadays computer generated graphics seems to be capable of anything!

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

Didn't Galland pull out because of his disagreements with the makers of the film (on various issues including the use of the Nazi salute).

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

Where exactly did you see the converted Percival Proctors?

My understanding was that one or two had been partially converted but never used as the handling characteristics were awful and that the makers went for scale models in the end. Study of the clip you attached shows these models in action . If you have a look at the Rudhall books on the making of the film the differences between the Ju87 and the converted PP are quite evident - less wing camber, cowling/cockpit/fuselage ratios etc. Books still in storage so can't quote pages etc. but maybe someone else can confirm.

The Mosley book to which Doug refers is excellent and outlines the 'feuds' between Galland and the film makers. Still have my original 1969 copy presented to me for something or other at a school speech day.

Regards

David

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

I now realise there were no converted Proctors but only models.

All questions answered, thank you, except that Kondor Models don't seem to claim their new Stuka has functioning dive brakes and bomb cradle, although there can be no reason they couldn't be added and the model dived vertically from scale 8,000 feet. Presumably models can now be flown with the controller using a joystick sitting in front of a screen fed with video streamed from the cockpit.

So hopefully next time we could see Blitzkrieg re-enacted with all systems operating. Producers will still have to remember to train actors appropriately for 1939/40, since the common view of soldiers has been affected by Saving Private Ryan with troops behaving like pot-smoking Vietnam-era GIs.

Tony

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

1) Airframe stress on the pull-out, requiring stronger, heavier structure? I guess it would be a problem in a model, as in the real thing.

2) Here's your answer!

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

Not today Nick with carbon fiber and Kevlar. Scale jets doing 200mph and over stay together in the air, so I can't see a problem with the pull-out of a Ju-87. With programmable controls even the pullout would a cinch.

It is not hard to understand why the Germans failed during the BoB with Spit IXs as opposition (see 2:30 in the video)

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

....Stuka making a crash landing on the radar station more or less intact; aircraft exploding in mid air with the wings just falling off; Heinkel model crashing into the sea trailing the radio-control wire aerial; the fires of the London Blitz glowing like someone was switching them on and off, plus moving around over London as they were superimposed; THAT 1960's front door and doorbell; no Do17s, Ju88s, Me110's etc; Susannah York's awful 1960's haircut and make-up etc etc etc...

...we could all pick dozens more faults with the film but I still quite happily watch it, because it was made for all the right reasons as a tribute to The Few and accept its shortcomings because there was no CGI at the time. There has also never been a film or book written that does not have mistakes in it.

Seeing as the film industry has run out of new ideas and rehashes old favourites all the time, perhaps they could do something useful and remake BoB with CGI and more accurate detail?

The extras on the DVD show that Galland was the Luftwaffe advisor and the producers had rows with him about various issues e.g. Galland claimed that Luftwaffe pilots never machine-gunned bailed out RAF pilots: the producers said they had evidence they did. It also says that the film cost so much to make, they barely made a penny, even possibly making a loss.

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

… of the sequences where a formation of Spits peels off into a dive — they are such a beautiful sight.

Actually — doorbell aside — I thought the film did a pretty good job with the means at its disposal. The overall story was reasonably faithful to history with lots of recognisable incidents.

GCI isn't the answer to everything either, not when it's combined with ignorance of history. There was that (Spielberg?) TV mini-series where beautifully rendered Bf 109 Es (complete with tail struts) were attacking B-17s. Or "Enemy at the Gates" where each (otherwise believable) Ju 87 had three underwing racks loaded with long sleek bombs more suited to an F-15E Strike Eagle. Or "Dr Who: The Empty Child" where the He 111s flew over in close formation — at night!

What I could never understand are the scenes of air attack in "Das Boot" — why didn't they just get some film of the FAA's Swordfish and cut it in?

Highly commended: Ian McKellen's "Richard the Third", set in the 1930s–40s with a real Blenheim composited into one of the battles.

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

I examined the Mosley book more carefully and the critical issue that Galland was concerned with was whether or not Kesselring was to give a "Nazi" salute while greeting Göring at a train station. While the director, Guy Hamilton, wanted to include it as a dramatic point, it was historically false and looked like a caricature. Galland threatened to walk off the picture and give the film bad publicity unless the matter was corrected. He apparently won because in the scene, the actor depicting Kesselring gives the correct military salute! (at about 1 hour and 24 minutes into the film).

Has anyone noticed the big hill in the background? I m sure that Pas de Calais had nothing like that!


Looking at the credits, I see that the "German Technical and Tactical Advisors" were listed as:
Adolf Galland
Col. Hans Brustellin
Maj. Franz Frodl

So that answers the question insofar as the "official " ex-Luftwaffe advisors are concerned.

For the sake of completeness, here is what we have on these last two fellows:

BRUSTELLIN, Hans-Heinrich. 01.04.37 Oblt., appt Staka 3./JG 135 (to 14.03.38). 01.04.38 appt Staka 1./JG 138. 01.11.38 appt Staka 1/JG 134. 15.07.39 Hptm., in I./JG 76, appt Kdr. I./JG 51 (to 17.10.40) and concurrently Kdt. Fl.H. Adlershof (Berlin-Johannistal) (to 11.39). 15.08.40 WIA – in Bf 109 E-4 shot down and crash landed in the vicinity of Pihen/10.6 km SSW of Calais. 18.10.40 Hptm., appt Kdr. I./JG 53 (to 31.05.41). 01.01.42 promo to Maj. 02.42 Maj., in Stab/Gen.d.Jagdflieger (to 07.05.43). 07.05.43 trf to X. Fliegerkorps for further assignment. 15.09.43 Maj., appt Jagdfliegerführer Ostpreussen (to 31.03.44). 29.09.44 Obstlt., appt Kommodore JG 106 (to 02.45).

FRODL, Franz. 1943 Oblt., appt Staka Kampfstaffel/Erprobungskdo. 25 (to 1944).

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

That is my understanding. The producers wanted the three Luftwaffe Pilots who met Goring off the train to give the Nazi salute, Galland insisted that it never happened.

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

And surely Galland was mis-remembering.

Hitler famously said he had a reactionary Army, a Christian Navy but a National Socialist Air Force, and Galland was for years one of Hitler's favourites.

Galland reciprocated the enthusiasm, which was probably the main reason he lasted for three years as General der Jagdflieger in spite of his hedonism, impatience, blunt language, failures (eg in Sicily), and Goering's antagonism.

And by the way, what exactly was Galland doing illegally in Argentina after his unconditional release by the denazification board in May 1947?

His refusal to explain that paralelled the information gap on his political views and actions during the war.
We simply don't know enough to accept his statement they didn't give the Hitlergruss.



Tony

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

Well in 1940 that was indeed not the standard military nor Luftwaffe salute, to that extend it would be unprofessional for a soldier to do so.

Of course that doesn't mean it wasn't done before before july 44, but it was just not "military" to do so.

Therefor unless you have proof that they did use the Nazi salute, it is more likely they didn't.

For all his popularity I always thought it interesting that Galland wasn't part of the reemerging post war Luftwaffe, while many others like Steinhoff were. Not to cast the first stone, but Galland was probably unfitting for high command (like so many in the Nazi era turned out to be).

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

That wasn't an original thought.

In modern german history:

The Army was Prussian first and foremost and loyal to the King of Prussia
The Navy was Imperial and loyal to the Kaiser and the Empire.

The Air Force as in independent arm was "National Socialist" and it is hard to argue that it was not, both in birth and generation of men.

Of course with the other arms this distinction became less clear with the junior cadre of officers, but the senior generation was still embedded in these traditions.

One of Hitlers biggest coups in his career was winning support of the army, he had tamed his most powerful and influential of adversaries, it ranks there with bluffing the Anglo-French into inaction during the Czech and later Polish adventures.

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

Michulec and Caldwell believe Galland was offered the post of Bundesluftwaffe Inspector (Commander), which he would not accept, but because of his activities during the war, and more importantly because of 'unsavoury connotations associated with his illegal flight to Argentina', his appointment to head the Bundesluftwaffe, which he wanted, was politically unacceptable. So it went to the safe Josef Kammhuber.

On the matter of taming the army, it was surely only FDR and Churchill's 'Unconditional Surrender' that achieved this for Hitler and Goebbels. If the Allies had offered peace terms, Hitler would have been liquidated in 1943.

Tony

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

Pentathlon gold medallist, colleague of Galland, and serving LW officer, Gotthard Handrick, saw fit to give the Hitlergruss on the Olympic podium in 1936.
Surely he would not have done so had it been 'unprofessional'?

I believe the Hitlergruss was voluntary.
So it is quite possible that the ultra-keen Galland would have given the Hitlergruss at an historically important point in 1940 when all believed German victory was inevitable, and, more importantly, the news photographers were present to record it.

The Italian Silvano Abba also unsurprisingly gave the Hitlergruss, while the American Charles Leonard correctly saluted.

Tony

Re: Any ex-LW adviser for 1969 BofB film?
 

I misunderstood; Handrick was actually saluting Hitler in person. Absent Hitler he would have saluted like Leonard, and so would Kesselring in 1940.
Galland was right to object to Guy Hamilton's 'Hollywood Moment' in BofB.

Tony