Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Hello,

can someone give me info on Ju-88 1H+GP lost 25 or 26 july 1944 ; two crewmembers, Uffz Horst Winkler and Uffz Heinz Rattay, made POW, one missing ; details on mission, localisation of loss, name of fourth crewmember ?

Thanks in advance. Regards

Claude

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Claude, 'K' report 401/1944 states aircraft took-off at 2030hrs, from Dole/Tavaux to attack Allied shipping in the Seine Estuary carrying two F.5B torpedos. Pilot selected a destroyer screened by a Corvette on which he made a torpedo run, at a height shown as 15m on the FuGe101 aircraft hit the sea and ditched before releasing torpedos ( given as Baie de la Seine at 2315hrs. on 26th July). Pilot claimed that following violent evasive action to avoid AA the FuGe101 was not working properly.
The mission was undertaken by a three man crew as no replacement was available for the sick gunner. Crew Ff Uffz Horst Winkler POW slightly wounded , B name and rank unknown missing, Bf Uffz Heinz Rattay POW.
'Achtung Torpedos Los' has Ogef. Heinz Bennewitz between Winkler and Rattay which suggests he was the missing B,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

All my thanks Brian !

the only problem I don't understand is that give us three crewmembers Winkler, Bennewitz and Rattay ; if plane crashed in sea, no chance for one man swimming back to german lines ; so we must think only three men in crew !

Regards

Claude

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

I wanted to let you know that the radio operator on this flight was my dad, Heinz Rattay. I know this is an old post. I found it doing an Internet search one day looking for info on my dad's flight crew, group, etc.

There is an explanation as to why there were only three crew members, but it's kind of involved. If anyone is interested, I can share more. It was curious to me about the Dole/Tavaux airfield, pretty sure that was disinformation. I have that they took off from Montelimar, where they were based and flew to Coganc for a briefing. Also interesting that they listed the pilot as slightly wounded and my dad as not wounded.

The pilot was in pretty bad shape, too weak to grasp the rescue line. They had already bypassed him when they picked up my dad who had broken ribs and pushed in teeth. Maybe wounded only applies to AA shots? I do know they checked and rechecked FUGe/altimeter. It showed as working but they doubted it for some reason.

The third guy was in the belly when they hit. If I understood my dad right he was the navigator/observer there to drop the torpedos kind of like a bomadier? Or maybe a gunner? (need to research that a bit) They thought he died on impact, and all the ammunition cartridges landed on top of him.

My dad tried to open the canopy when the plane hit the water but it would not pop. The plane filled up fast. He went down to the bottom to try to get out the belly hatch, but couldn't get through all the cartridges, etc. At the last possible moment, his hand struck a hole in the nose windscreen. He found out later the pilot got out that way, that's how the pilot (and his life vest) got so cut up. My dad was able to get out through the hole enlarged by the pilot.

Brian,
I and my brothers would like to find out how one gets a copy of that K report 401/1944. We're a little confused about what to request, whether we ask for the whole year and so on, because there were other interrogations of our father later, too. Maybe you could PM on that or direct me to info on this site?

From everything I've read, I'm thinking my dad was part of KG26. But understanding the Luftwaffe structure is a bit difficult. When we would ask him where he was based, he would say Riga. But, he spent all his active duty in France, much of it torpedoing ships in the Mediterranean.

I am very pleased to be here on this site. It is so hard to find info on the Internet when one's German is at the Kindergarten level.

Sue

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Hi Sue and Claude,
as far as i know, there was frequently a 3 men crew for Ju88 torpedo missions.
i'll send you a PM
Regards
Lino

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Sue..
Thanks for that post. Puts a real life feel to the Thread!
Glad your dad made it...

Tschuss
Motch

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

There was supposed to be 4: pilot, radio operator, nav./observer, gunner. But in 1944, yes there were frequently 3. My dad was a replacement on this crew. His normal crew had got shot down in the Med. a month before.... all perished. He had been grounded from that flight due to illness. Thanks for the PM, Lino.

I know I'm kind of a novice in understanding all this. I hope to learn a lot here. I don't want to ask questions that have already been answered elsewhere on the site, so I've got to spend some time reading here.

Sue

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Hello,

according Admiralty War Diaries for july 1944, it seems 1H+GP was shot down by destroyer HMS Faulkner who picked up to of the crew.

Regards

Claude

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Sue,

If you send me an E-Mail address via a PM I can send you a copy of the report,

Regards

Brian Bines

On checking an earlier KG26 'K' report it says that in May1943 the IV/KG26 (Operational training Gruppe) moved from Grosseto to Riga/Spilve.

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Riga was where they trained for torpedo missions. I will see if I have an NVM for this loss

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

I do have the NVM which just states Ju 88 A-17, 550042, 1H+GP of 6/KG 26 failed to return from an operational flight over the Channel. Uffz Horst Winkler (F), Ogefr Heinz Bennewitz (KB) and Uffz Heinz Rattay (service number 62724/212-Bordfunker). No 4th crewman and there is space on the bottom of the NVM. It also lists Ofw Heinrich Lehr's crew (albeit in the order BF, B, FF, BM) and is signed off by the Gr Kdr Maj Teske
Sue-if you PM me I can send you a copy.

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Just a thought, since the aircraft was a Ju 88 A-17, with no lower gun position , perhaps 3 crewmen would have been the normal complement.

Best Regards,

ArtieBob

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Hello,
the normal crew was four men. In the K-report it is said that the air gunner became ill during the flight between Montelimar and Tavaux. As there was no replacement avalaible, the 1H+GP left Tavaux for operationnal mission with a crew of only three.

Regards

Claude

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Thanks for all the info.
I have a photo of my dad Weinachsten 1942 when he was in training. They were still doing the longer training time then. I had wondered if it was at Riga. He was from a small village in E.Prussia/Ostpreussen and said he sometimes buzzed his village on training runs. Trained on JU-88 and He 111s. I suppose Riga would have been close enough to do that. I had read the Grosseto information but it didn't fit with the 1942 picture unless he was trained then sent to Grosseto then to Riga.
Again, thanks so much. It means a lot.

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

I remember my dad saying the gunner was ill. My dad was a replacement with this crew, because this crew's radio operator got shot down with my dad's crew when my dad had strep a month before.

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Sue do you know the names of any of yours Dad's crew lost a month before, as background it might be possible to list them from other sources.
You say he was lost over the Med. a month before but according to the German book on the KG26 history losses of II/KG26 from the 19-6-44 to your Dad's crash were over the Invasion front or France. There is one on the 18-6-44 crew of Uffz.Naser (6/KG26) shown as the Med. but the 'K' report shows one POW picked up from the Channel on mission to attack shipping off Cherbourg,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Excellent book on KG26
 

Hi Sue,

Nice to have you on board! May I recommend an excellent book on KG26 (which I'm reading and thoroughly enjoying right now)? It's called "Die Spur des Löwen" by Alexander Steenbeck, ISBN 978-3-00-0039734-0. http://www.die-spur-des-loewen.de/englisch.html It has almost a thousand pictures and maps, the story about your dad is on page 250.

Regarding your last remark above: Don't let the German language put you off, you will be surprised how much you will understand if you are really interested in the subject and using just a simple dictionary :) (I think you would be even more surprised if you knew how many people on this board are not native German speakers, let alone how many are not even native English speakers..;)) Even if you would read only the photo captions, this book will help to put the war career of your dad into perspective and give you a good impression of what his colleagues, aircraft and daily ops looked like.

You can find a review here: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...t=31285&page=2

Good luck,

Marcel

Re: Ju-88 6/KG26 lost 26 july 1944
 

Brian,
All I can really say for sure is that my dad said his crew was shot down "a month or so" before he (my dad) was shot down. He said when he was with them they were primarily attacking ships in the Mediterranean. He said in his group (not sure of correct term) they were known for hitting targets and getting out of difficult situations. I do not know for sure if they were shot down over the Med. I may have mistakenly connected those dots.

A few months ago, my aunt sent me a photo of my dad and his best friend during the war, Harry, from when they were on leave in E.Prussia. She said Harry was killed in the war, but when I asked if he was the one killed with that crew, she said she didn't think so. My dad did have a good friend killed at Montecassino, according to my mother. So, it gets confusing.

My dad couldn't even give me an exact date for him (my dad) getting shot down. Only said it was July or August 1944.

It's possible he said Mediterranean and just meant off the coast of France. Or, he said some place name I didn't recognize, and when I asked where's that, he said on the Mediterranean. But I am certain the whole crew was lost. I can still remember his face when he said it.

My brother has contacted war records offices in Germany to see what we can find out there.

I will look into a those books, too!

Sue