Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Hi all,

Researching about the Me 262 A-2a WNr.170068 (9K+BN) I found the following information in Dan O'Connell, "Messerschmitt Me 262, The Production Log 1941-45" (Classic, 2005), p. 53:

Me 262 A-2a, WNr.170068 - Call sign KL+WV. Fw. Helmut Lennartz of Ekdo 262, flew "068", possibly this aircraft, from Leipheim to Lechfeld on 20 July 1944, 14:40 to 14:45. On 5 November it was stationed at Schwabisch-Hall where Lt.Carl H Friedrich of 5./KG51 took off at 10:25 for a 40min high altitude flight. On 14th February 1945 this Me 262 A-2a, now coded 9K+BN, was shot down down by Typhoons of No. 439 Squadron, RCAF on 14 February 1945, near Coesfeld. It had taken-off from Rheine and crashed at Osterwyk, the pilot Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter of 5./KG51 being KIA.

Would anyone have information about the combat career of Lt. Friedrich and Oblt. Richter?

In Kracker I found the following about Lt. Friedrich:

One known victory, a Stirling over the Normandy Front on 28 June, 1944.

But is no mention of the full name of Lt. Friedrich.

Does anyone have more information?

Already, many thanks for any help.

Cheers,
Franklin

Profile: Robert Peczkowski & Artur Juszczak, "Messerschmitt Me262: Schwalbe" (Mushroom Model, 2002), p. 86.

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Hi,

Friedrich Carl Heinz, flight 1084 at 31.03.1945
LKS4, C8, BFS 3,
10./KG1, 6./KG 1, 11./KG51, 6./KG51

olt. Richter, Hans Georg, * 28.07.1917 Halle a.d. Saale + 14.02.1945

LG "Sis

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Hi LG

Sorry for the delay in responding and thank you for the reply.

Questions:

Lt. Friedrich survived the war? He even had a Abschuss in Normandy?

You have some other details about the career of Oblt. Richter? Number of missions? Other units in which he served?

Again, many thanks for your help.

Cheers!

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Thread resurrection time!

I've just obtained Lt Carl Heinz Friedrich's Flugbuch and it does indeed record his Me262 flights. He had an interesting career as was a longtime Ju88 and He177 pilot and records a lot of detail on bombloads etc. Anyway...feel free to PM if you'd like any details or scans sending through.

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

My guess is that looking at the detailed answers, some already have had access to his FB but I am still puzzled as to this kill over Normandy or do we have another Friedrich? Any clues in the FB as I believe he never flew the Me 410

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Hi Chris,

No entries in his Flugbuch for the 410. He flew the FW190 after the HE177 but looks like it was as an introduction to the Me262, very brief flights and only for a short period. I'm currently on holiday until early Sep but happy to send scans across to those who asked, but won't be for two weeks!

Regards,

Si

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

So therefore there must be another Friedrich on 5/KG 51

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Si

This is very odd. Are there any dates vs units listed in Friedrich's Flugbuch?
Since II./KG 51 (and I./KG 51 as well) at this time was a fully equipped unit operating the Me 410 it is really odd no Me 410 flights are mentioned.

The type He 177 was never operated by KG 51, so it then seems he is transferred into this unit from somewhere else and also at a date after the unit re-equipped with the Me 262!

If that is correct he can't be, as Chris says, the one who shot down the "Sterling" during the night in question. It also seems the victory is only filed under the name Leutnant Friedrich, without any given names at all.

Perhaps a really stupid question but could some pages be missing in the FB? Hardly likely, but I have to ask to rule out the possibillity....

I looked in Horn's book, who lists the claim as made by C-H Friedrich, and tried to see if any other Friedrich could match, but not so in II./KG 51.

But it would be interesting to know what is listed in the FB to see when he came to KG 51 in the first place.

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Sorry Stig I'm away from home right now.....without naming names I've had an expert look at the Flugbuch who said it was 100% genuine, but I must admit it is strange. I'll see what I can find when I'm back home at the start of Sep. Definitely no Me410 entries but maybe the confusion relates to which unit he was flying with and the other Friedrich?

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

This is the only one with this name flying in the Luftwaffe on the indicated date. There was no one else with the name Karl or Hermann, either.

FRIEDRICH, Karl-Hermann. Oblt. RDA: 1.10.41 (112).
[Dienstaltersliste der Offiziere der Deutschen Luftwaffe nach dem Stande vom 1. August 1944.]

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Very interesting. I've added all the photos that were in the eBay ad to a public album which you should be able to see. Apologies but they appear back to front. His name is listed on his Flugbuch as Carl Heinz Friedrich.

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Larry

Which unit did 'your' Friedrich belong to?

Si

Where do we find your album?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Hi chaps,

If you click on my profile you should be able to see it. One chap has just pm' me about it so you should be able to aswell. I've had a reply from Larry which makes a lot of thanks, thank you very much sir.

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Stig -

There has been some confusion over my Post #10, above. I meant to state that the Dienstaltersliste of 1 August 1944 did not include anyone by the name of Carl-Heinz Friedrich, but I failed to state that the Dienstaltersliste only includes Aktivoffiziere (Truppenoffiziere). Offiziere d.Reserve and Kriegsoffiziere are not included in the Dienstaltersliste. So Carl-Heinz Friedrich was an Offz.d.R. or a K.O.

From our Lw. Officer Career Summaries:

FRIEDRICH, Carl-Heinz. 28.06.44 Lt., 5./KG 51. Credited with one victory.
and,
FRIEDRICH, ? . 05.07.43 Oblt. training in IV./KG 76.
and,
FRIEDRICH, Karl-Heinz. 31.12.43 Lt., 3./LG 2 KIA - Ju 88 A-4 (L1+CL) lost to ground contact vic
Augusta harbor.

I think two of these may be the same person but with the rank being incorrect for one of them.

L.

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Simon/Larry

Thanks :)

Stig

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

All,
Ltn. Carl-Heinz Friedrich had his first flight for 11./KG 51 on 29-Sep-44 in Fw 190. Then on 30-Oct-44 he started flying the Me 262 in 5./KG 51. Prior to that he was with 6./KG 1. Before that with 10./KG 1.

The victory does not make sense for 5./KG 51. He was still with 6./KG 1 at this time. No flights in his Flugbuch on that day as well.

Hope this helps,

Norbert

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Thanks for confirming the dates Norbert

Looked at the pages supplied from his FB and realised KG 1 was his former unit. It of course begs the question already posed by Chris, who was the Friedrich who claimed the Sterling on the 28th of June?

B Rgds
Stig

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

"Oberleutnant Hans-Georg Richter was born in 1917 in Halle/Saale. He spent most of his career in combat glider units: III./LLG 1 in 1941, Staka of 5./DFS 230 in June 1942, Staka of Schleppgruppe 3 in October 1943. Probably after the latter unit was disbanded, he was transferred in July 1944 to 12./KG 51 before being transferred to 5. Staffel [of KG 51]. Richter was shot down by Flight Lieutenant Lyal C. Shaver of 439 (RCAF) Sq. [in february 14, 1945]".

source: Avions Hors-Series 45, p. 44.

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Hi Stig,

The claim for the Stirling can be found on p. 0129 of RL 5/1451 on the right side #11. Indeed, it is by an "Lt. Friedrich" of 5./KG 51. However, I believe that this is an error for Lt. Friedrich Jirmann of 5./KG 51.

best regards,

Jim

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Thanks Jim

I am a bit off side right now and will be back home again in about three weeks.
Very little internet connection during this time.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Thanks Jim - that clears up that anomaly ref the Halifax claim nicely!

Just an aside but Carl-Heinz Friedrich's Leistungsbuch came up for sale very recently and someone bought it whilst I was trying to buy it myself. Would have been lovely to have reunited his Flugbuch with it but there you go.

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Ofhr Friedrich Jirmann was wounded when shot down by 488 Sqn on 25 June 1944 and from what I can see was then in hospital at Le Mans. He confirms that there was a Lt Friedrich on II./KG 51 and sent me a photo of him

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Carl-Heinz Friedrich survived the war?

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Thanks Chris, for the info of Jirmann being at the hospital of Le mans. What made me think he was a candidate was Horn's statement on p. 46: "Da die machine nicht zu halten ist, befiehlt Jirmann den Absprung. Während Jirmann mit leichten Verletzungen sicher am Boden ankommt und sich bei eigenen Truppen in sicherheit bringen kann, wird sein BordfunkerGefr. Alwin Dreher tot westlich Dangy gefunden." Is Jirmann's flugbuch available?

Jim

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Sorry no Flugbuch otherwise I would have been 100% sure. The NVM mentions hospital in Le Mans and was dated July 1944

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

No idea. His Flugbuch finishes in march 1945 with an abortive Me262 Feindflug when his flaps were damaged by a takeoff rocket.

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Any WN you wouldn't mind sharing? Many thanks for your consideration. Dan

Re: Lt. Carl H Friedrich and Oblt. Hans-Georg Richter, 5./KG51
 

Hi Dan - we were in touch a while back, I think you have his Flugbuch already as C-Heinz Friedrich is mentioned extensively in your wonderful book. The only WN he mentions is 110746 on 20 Mar 1945 1126-1206 from Rheine - Schw. Hall.