Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Hello,

A few years ago on the internet there was a partial translation of a diary from a gunner from I./ZG1, who flew missions during the French Campaign of 1940. Somewhere I copied this partial translation, but now can't find where I filed it (may have lost it during computer upgrade). Does anyone know who I'm talking about, know whether the rest of the diary was ever translated into English, and/or could provide me with a copy of this?

Thanx in advance for any assistance.

Regards,

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Hi Larry: That might have been Kurt Bundrock? I remember reading a bit on him when he was first paired with his pilot ( Heinz Nacke). I too was interested in seeing more from that unpublished diary. Dean

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Dean,

That is the person. Still can't find where I saved the translation, but I did find some correspondence on the subject. Bundrock was the BF for Reinhold Knacke and both were later RKT. The website where this partial translation was posted is now defunct, but a Neil Page was apparently the translator who posted this. Can anyone provide further info on this diary? I need a full translation through at least the end of 1940, but would settle for the partial translation, plus the German text for the rest if someone has access to this info. This contains an important insight into life of a crew with I./ZG 1 during the FC and BoB.

Regards,

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

I think I have a hard copy of the page or two that you are referring to. If I can find it I'll see if I can scan and send it to you. Dean

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Dean,

Thanks Dean.

Still looking for where a copy of the rest of this 200-page diary (or the parts through 31.12.40) can be obtained.

Regards,

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Larry, Neil Page is a member of this forum. His username is Falke Eins.

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Maimowitz,

Thanks. I hope that Neil will either follow up with a post or contact me.

Regards,

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Larry,
Neil is also a member of Peter Evans' forum, Luftwaffe Experten Message Board. You might also catch him there.

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Hello all,

Thanks to André Stewart, I've now obtained the first three translated pages of the Bundrock manuscript. I'm also working a line back to the source, in hopes of obtaining a copy for the period for our research project. It seems that the Knacke/Bundrock crew flew Bf110C 2N+CL at the beginning of the Western Campaign. I get no hits on that code in our data base, but I'm thousands of photos behind in entering our full holdings in the DB. Does anyone have a photo of a Bf110 of 3./ZG1 with those codes from the time of the WC? Does anyone know if, by chance, the Kurt Bundrock Flugbüch still exists for the WC/BoB period?

In the meantime, if anyone has any further translation of this diary beyond what was on the Page website several years ago, I'd still like to hear from them.

Regards,

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Hello Larry,

His diary was once published in German in the Landser serie. It has number 500 and the title is: "Kampf am nächtlichen Himmel" - no translation, but this is his complete story.
I will also contact the owner who has the original diary and led him know that you are looking for info. Perhaps he can help ?
Regards,

Wim

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Hello Wim,

If you mean Eric Jan Bakker, he has a copy of the original manuscript for the Landser publication, taken from a (sometimes) barely readable copy of the original manuscript which I made for him several years ago.

In this sense, it is not a diary but many recollections of Kurt Bundrock, of which several - more private - parts were left out by the editors of the Landser. These parts were not very interesting, merely describing Bundrock's adventures during a rest.

Hoping that you are doing fine? All the best, Marcel Hogenhuis

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Hello,

This sounds like a memoir rather than a diary. Does anyone know if Neil Page ever translated further on this than the few initial pages posted on his old website? His website indicated that it was to be continued.

It appears that this is now on a track that will lead to acquisition of a copy of the memoir. Once we have it in hand, if it has not yet been further translated, we'll focus on getting that done for the EOE project.

We're also looking for other such anecdotal/memoir/diary accounts by Luftwaffe airmen from the 1939-40 period. Many were published during the war. If anyone knows of other such personal accounts that we should be aware of, I'd certainly like to know about it. We pretty much know about and have all of those that have been published since the war, unless maybe some in obscure German sources. We also know that there are a number of unpublished or privately published memoirs/diaries/recollections, but don't necessarily have them or even know about them. If other board readers know of the existence of such accounts, I would appreciate hearing about these. I have always been struck by the absence of published personal diaries of Luftwaffe airmen from the war. There must have been many written, but few have come to light to my knowledge. Having more of these would go a long way to accurately re-creating the story of the air war during the 1939-40 period.

Can anyone help here?

Regards,

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Hi Marcel,

I am not going to reveal the name of the person in question. It is up to him to reply or not, but rest assure - he does not have a copy or so - it is the actual original manuscript from and typed by Bundrock which has personal corrections, pages inserted, and so on. This manuscript was indeed mainly used for the Landser but I can only confirm that certain parts which were left out are in fact very interesting. I wonder which copy that you have, because there are in fact two different typed versions of this manuscript, which he both has.
And were do you draw the line between personal recollections and a diary. I see it as a diary.
Anyway, there is at this moment nothing more that I can do, a mail has been forwarded.
And yes, thanks, all is OK, and I can only hope that you are doing fine also.
Best wishes,

Wim

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Gentlemen,

My good friend Wim is right about that.

Years ago I was able to buy the two versions of Bundrock's manuscript on a German auction site.

One version is more detailed than the other, names are changed, opinions on other NJG pilots, some very private details such as injuries and women etc. Handwritten corrections and extra notes are also included.

I also have some of his wartime letters to his parents and brother, must say that he wrote them as if it were combat/battle - reports, and one can clearly see that his letters are exactly used in his manuscript.

Further on some photos, Bordfunkerschein and Abzeichen.

Contract with the Der Landser publisher.

Correspondence with historians and researchers included the ones that didn't return his orginal photos to him.

So one can say it is for a large part based on his wartime letters and for the rest it is from his memory, but to me it reads like a diary.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Mr. Bakker,

Thanks for jumping in here. You obviously are the ultimate source for this memoir/diary. I've been directly in touch with Wim, who is an EOE Working Group member, and since you are friends, I'll let you two work on this together. My wife and I are very good friends with the de Meesters.

Thanx,

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Hi Larry,

I don't think there was much more on ZG 1 in his manuscript... unfortunately. I used the Landser text with Erik-Jan's permission. Lengthier translated extracts made it into the Nachtjagd War Diaries books and one of the Kagero Bf 110 monographs IIRC

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

[quote=FalkeEins;115197]Hi Larry,

I don't think there was much more on ZG 1 in his manuscript... unfortunately. I used the Landser text with Erik-Jan's permission. Lengthier translated extracts made it into the Nachtjagd War Diaries books and one of the Kagero Bf 110 monographs IIRC

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com[/quote]


Gentlemen,

Just got a phone call about this reply posted here.

Maybe I missed something but no one ever asked me permission for the Der Landser text or the original manuscript to use for a translation, publication or whatever.

I have no idea why someone must ask me about the Der Landser permission as I am not the publisher of that magazine and have no connections with the publisher.
And the contract was made between Bundrock and Pabel Verlag.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

Maybe better to contact Marcel Hogenhuis for information on the manuscript he does have, he did get his copy from Bundrock himself.
Marcel does have contact with many veterans, does have his own archive and is very knowledgeable on this subject.

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Hello Eric-Jan, Wim and others,

I am glad that Eric-Jan has saved even more (and seemingly the most important) parts of Bundrock's legac, than I already did know. Thanks to Eric-Jan's letters of Bundrock to his parents, I was able to dismantle the silly myth that the crew of Knacke/Bundrock did shot down 5 bombers in the night of 16.17 September 1942 >
1) these 5 did not fit at all with the known victories of Knacke and the airfield from with he (and the 1./NJG 1) were operating in September 1942.
2) this event - which should have been a proud moment to recollect for a German nightfighter crew but a very tragical loss for the RAF - was not mentioned in Bundrock's memoirs at all
3) these 5 victories do not show up in the Abschussliste of the RLM Abt. für Auszeichnungen und Disziplin

Another example to express that the Nonnenmacher-Ring list of nocturnal victories of the Nachtjagdgeschwader should be used with upmost care.

Dear Wim: perhaps the memoirs of Bundrock do read like a diary for you, in a way I do agree because Bundrock gives a very personal description of his war time adventures, but in a strict sense it is not a daily account of what happened to him as is usual in diaries.

I have several, non professional reproductions of photo's which must come from the Bundrock collection, how I wish that this was done more professionaly! It's sad to read that others did not return those pictures because these could illustrate much of what Bundrock has described.

All the best, Marcel

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Marcel,

Thanks to those Bundrock letters he wrote to his parents and his brother you were also able to find out that you missed one of his victories......

I still remember your reply.....5hit, then I am missing an Abschuß.

In the manuscript there are photocopies of the photos he used.

One of them shows an airplane in the air taken by another airplane.

Under it Bundrock wrote ; "Me.110. 2N+CL, Besatzung : Kancke - Bundrock".
That code is also mentioned in one of the posts in this thread.

Still sad to read that some historians / researchers didn't return his orginal photos to him, including photos of shot down crashed aircrafts.
Copies of request letters that he wrote to such men are included in his grouping.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Larry:

Photo of Bf110C (probably 2N+IK or +LK) appeared on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-orig-LW-Flug...-/250710814399

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

I think that the third character is blue outlined in white, which would make it 1./ZG 1.

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

Yes, John, I overlooked it!

Any idea what a/c is it? Pilots name?

Re: Searching for info on diary for I./ZG1 Gunner during 1940
 

For those interested ? his memoires published in the Landser are on sale at ebay: http://cgi.ebay.de/Landser-GB-901-Ka...item5d2b2aba58

Regards,

Wim