ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Hello,

Can anyone ID this Bf109E (unit, date, pilot, etc). Has this one been shown on ebay or elsewhere?

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...ht_1916wt_1035

I'm pretty sure that other images of this one have been previously published, and want to get this one nailed down.

Thanx,

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Hi Larry,
Discussed also here at LEMB.
Br
Goran

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Goran,

Thanks. I checked this out and saw the speculation about it possibly being one of the a/c of Marseilles. We'll have to see. I'm trying to remember a photo of a force-landed 109 on the French coast that had a dark camo like this, and carried a White or Yellow 7 for the a/c code. I seem to remember that one of the issues of Luftwaffe im Focus identified this one. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? It would help greatly if we could ID these photos with an aircraft code.

Regards,

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Hello,

It's far to be established, but I'm sure that everyone here thought immediately to one of Marseille's emergency landing.
For sure it's not a Bf109E-7, but since the Marseille plane WNr. given in lost list is a Bf109E-4/E-4B, why not: Plane pictured has a late canopy windscreen!
Concerning the "White 7" Larry is talking about, described in L. in Focus, It was an Erg./JG26 - if it's the same of course.
Last, keep in mind that WNr.6137, I./JG54, is in JG54 lost list: 25/08/1940, Wissant and it is a Bf109E-1.
Of course, two last pictures given by Goran in LEMB depict the very same plane we are talking about for the reason he explained: Propeller blades bending.

Cheers, Franck.

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Franck,

I agree that the images posted on the LEMB are of the same aircraft. I've been carefully saving photos of Luftwaffe beach landings/crashes from the WC and BoB period for several years, and this one does't otherwise lend itself to identification, unless it's the one from Erg/JG26, which IIRC was taken in early 1941. Does anyone remember the issue of "Luftwaffe im Focus" that featured pictures of this one, and its identification?

Regards,

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Hi Larry,
I have a photo of this Erg/JG26 Me109E.It's a E3/4,yellow nose and landed on a shingle seashore!
Regards
René

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

An E-3/4 with MGs in the wings...?

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

John,

This would make it likely that referenced photos that started this thread off are NOT the Erg/JG26 aircraft. As you point out, the photos show this as an E-1 with no cannon in th wings.

Regards,

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Hi

It is not the plane from the I./JG 54, the 2.Staffel had red numbers, and on the first foto i see a part of a black number. Possibly it is a Me Bf 109 E-8, from the JG 3 ???

Greetings Christian

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Hi Christian,

:confused: Where? Did I miss something?

Regards, Franck.

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Larry, the "White 7" can be found on p. 44-45 in LiF No.8. An E-4 (cannon in wing visible) of "JG 26's replacement training Staffel" belly landed on the beach near Dieppe. Photo taken by Albert Brunner then by the unit, but it is not sure that he was the pilot in this event according to the caption. This is obviously not the same aircraft as you are trying to identify.
Cheers
Goran
Edit: Date given as 10 January 1941 (Date for the images I've posted at LEMB given as Sep alt. Oct)

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Goran,

So, my thought that this could be the same a/c as the one in the photos that started this all isn't correct. So now we're back to trying to ID the original a/c in question, and it keeps the idea alive that this could be an a/c of Marseilles. If anyone else knows of other photos that show the plane number, or any other info about this force landing on the beach near Wissant, France, almost certainly during the Battle of Britain, I'd certainly like to hear about it.

Regards,

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

It is tempting to think that the photos in both reference groups, above, might be a machine of Marseille when he was with LG 2. However, there is simply no way to say, even with a little bit of certainty, that it might be. It well might be, but it cannot be proven. Some items to consider:

§ The loss listing for 5579 says 75%. The machine in these photos does not look like that high a percentage: bent prop, smashed oil coolers and radiators and some other damage. Doesn't look like 75% to me.
§ The photos simply do not show enough to say anything except it looks like the cowl is yellow, but so were many machines at that time.
§ Some negatives: The machine, weisse 7, in Wubbe is definitely an E-3/4/7 and has cannons in the wings as pointed out. The machine in the above photos looks like an E-1 with MGs in the wings, as pointed out. It does have a late model canopy but many E-1s had been fitted with these. The spinner in Wubbe is definitely a dark color, perhaps black, whereas the above photos indicate a color matching the cowling color, perhaps, again, yellow.
§ Some positives: the prop is bent in the same way and stopped in the same position. The Wubbe plane is weisse 7, and in the above photo from the port side, you can see a tiny piece of a what might be a weisse KZ, but not enough to say anything conclusive. In our book on Marseille's machines we conclude there is nothing to prove Wubbe's implication that weisse 7 is Marseille's.

As much as I would like to say this is Marseille's, at this point I think the indicators are that it is unlikely this is his machine. There's simply not enough to go on. Anything else is speculation.

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Why go to ebay - i was shure i had one - and here it is:

JG 26 Strand Wissant at 1940

Greetings Peglar

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Thanks for the image :) JG 26? It's showing a 2./JG 54 emblem?

Re: ID of force-landed Bf109E on beach at Wissant France
 

Not the same plane,

The plane posted by Peglar has an early canopy windscreen. Fuselage cross is smaller comparing with picture posted by Goran on LEMB. And in June 1940 2./JG54 wasn't based at Campagne-les-Guînes, not yet.
Thanks for the picture anyway. Good stuff!
Extract of my post #4: "Last, keep in mind that WNr.6137, I./JG54, is in JG54 lost list: 25/08/1940, Wissant and it is a Bf109E-1." I did forgot damage 15%... That one? The other one? No other loss registered JG54 lost list in the area of Wissant at that time...

Cheers, Franck.