Air combat Italy April '44
 

My father-in-law's B-17F 43-5418 "Chief Wahoo" was shot up by 109 over Piombino [near Pisa] on 28th April 44. Ed was seriously WIA when a cannon shell struck his upper turret. on 30th April "Chief Wahoo" was shot down by flak and fighters over Vanette {Milan}. Ed was not on board obviously.

I'm trying to locate any details on both actions including who or what unit flew the 109's.

Also any photographs or detailsa on "Chief Wahoo" would be helpful. His other aircraft was B-17G 43-30232 "Flak Happy" tfr to 99th BG.

Ed flew with 815th BS 483rd BG...

Dear Chief Wahoo (or Oscar Duck?), the data reported are interesting, but seemingly doesn't correspond to similar Germain claims, neither on 28 or on 30 April.

As already indicated in another reply you received in a different forum, by that date units of JG 53, JG 77 and JG 4 were based in Italy, as well as the C.205s of the 1° Gruppo Caccia, the G.55s of 2° Gruppo and of Squadriglia Montefusco (all Italian ANR units).

So far no evidence of the encounter near Piombino have surfaced. This is no surprise, because even if an encounter there was, as the bomber wasn't apparently claimed as damaged/probable or destroyed, it is very difficult to track down the unit involved.

As far as the shooting down of the B-17 in/around Milan area (what's "Vanette"? No place like that do exist, maybe "Varese"?), on April 30 the Breda Factory and the airfield of Milano-Bresso were bombed, with the Fiat G.55s of 2° Gruppo Caccia scrambled to avoid being destroyed on that airfield. Although 1 B-24 was claimed as "probable", it is much more probable that the bomber you're interested in was shot down by the heavy flak of the area.

Sorry to have been vague, but not much more informations are available to me about these two dates.

HTH

Sir

Thank you for your response. My father-in-law was certainly wounded in action and was awarded the Purple Heart. Still only has partial use of his left arm due to the injuries received that day. It mentions flak and enemy aircraft. Ed assures me as late as yesterday that he shot at and was hit by a fighter [He says Me-109!!]

Here is the report on "Chief Wahoo": \

a/c 42-5418 Chief Wahoo 97th BG no Sqdn #. Assigned 20 Jan 43.Transfer
to 99 BG 14 Nov 43; flew 27 missions with 99 BG ; Transfer to 483rd BG 31
Mar 44. MIA Milan 30 Apr 44.... 815 Sq..damaged by flak.and attacked by
fighters; two engines out,crashed near Vanette; Hilmer Landholt crew;
Daniels; Kleiner; Bowles; Landwehr; Altgelt; Gatch; Conn; Davis ; Goddard.
Altgelt, Goddard evade to Switzerland ; Rest POW. (MACR 4612).


This is from "The Flying Fortress Story" by Roger Freeman and David Osborne.

a/c 42-5418 Del Tulsa 3/2/42; West Palm Beach 9/1/43; ass 97th BG Biskra
20/1/43 ; Chateau-du-Rhumel 8/2/43 ; Pont-du-Fahs 1/8/43 ;Depienne 15/6/43 ;
tran 99 BG 346BS/99BG Oudna 14/11/43 ; (27m/99) ; 815BS/483BG Tortorella
31/3/44 ; MIA Milan 30/4/44 ; w/Landholt ; flak & e/a ; cr Vanette ; 8POW.2
EVD to Switz. MACR 4612 ; CHIEF WAHOO.

Sir,

no one put in doubt that your father-in-law was wounded in combat on the date reported or that he witnessed the attack as being made by enemy fighters (the identification as "Me-109" is of little value, as this was in 90% of cases the usual identification made by USAAF crews or pilots, no matter what was in reality the type of fighters met, as continously verified during my researches...), only that this attack isn't reported by the documents currently available and/or published so far.

There could be a million explainations possible, starting from the simplest one, i.e. that such report hasn't been found or was lost, following with the possibility that, not being filed as a victory, it didn't end in the survived reports.

So far it can only be said that none of the units mentioned (either German and Italian) appear to have reported any such encounter on 28 April 1944, in the area indicated.

The only further data available (thanks to my friend Nick Beale) - bejond the reports and the texts of Jochen Prien on JG 53 and JG 77 and of Eric Mombeek on JG 4 - is that Luftflotte 2 on 28 April effected 184 sorties (i.e. individual flights), while on the 30th Lfl.2 effected 94 sorties. Such data results from ULTRA radio interception reports.

This has nothing to do with putting in doubt the word of your relative, but is the simplest and more honest reply available to your kind question.

Hope this explains a little better the concept.

P.S. Although reported as "Vanette" in the official reports available, the name doesn't correspond to any known Italian locality. It isn't the first and it wouldn't be the last case of a mispelled Italian name in Allied or German reports.

Thanks again for the information. I agree that the "history" of wartime encounters ranges from exact to at best a faded memory. No doubt the aircraft was shot down etc. Ed tells me that he was shooting at an fighter which hit his aircraft in the wing/engine area setting an engine on fire as well as a cannon shell exploding in his turret. It knocked out the turret severley wounding him and his left arm was jammed in the gun mechanism. He had to break his own wrist to free his arm. He spent 17 months in hospital in Italy and the USA after this. Your help is invaluable to me as I try to piece together his history. I have located a WW2 cartoon written in 1943 that features "Chief Wahoo" when she was with the 97th BG in Nth. Africa. If you send me your email address, I'll forward it to you. The guys here might like to see it as well. I don't know how to upload it.

I own a Spitfire XIV RM-797 that shot down four e/a including a Fw-190/Me-262/Ar-234/Ju-52 and am rebuilding it to fly.

Dear Mr. McFarlane,

You're welcome and I'm pleased to have been of some help, if any. I am sending you a PM with my e-mail address to allow you to send me a copy of the cartoon, which I will be honoured to post in this forum.

My best wishes for your enterprise of rebuilding the old "EB-E".

Cartoon of "Chief Wahoo"...
 

As promised to the kind Mr. McFarlane, here it is the cartoon depicting the B-17 "Chief Wahoo" which has been the protagonist of this thread.

http://users.libero.it/f.damico/veltro/Chief_Wahoo.jpg

According to the words of Mr. Larry N. Colvard, grandson of the pilot of the B-17, Col. Talment, "...After they had named the plane, a correspondent published this cartoon in US papers, My grandmother cut this out during the war, it depicts the noseart, they had ferried the writer for some reason..."

This is what makes history alive, IMHO...!

A second image is due to show the original look in wartime of the Spitfire which Mr. McFarlane is actually rebuilding...

http://users.libero.it/f.damico/veltro/EB_E_RM797.jpg

Hope to have been of help to the community... :)

Chief Wahoo
 

If the fight was on 30 April 1944, the following are the claims from Tony woods lists.

30.04.44 Oblt. Erich Thomas: 13 2./JG 53 B-17 £ SD-4: 6.500 m. [N.N.E. Bologna] 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.237
30.04.44 Uffz. Josef Ostrowitski 2./JG 4 B-17 £ TC-5: 5.000 m. [S. Bologna] 11.42 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM
30.04.44 Uffz. Eberhard Lang: 3 2./JG 77 B-17 £ 30 km. S.W. Padua: 7.000 m. 11.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.141

Cheers

Russell

Fantastic. I guess we could look at the relativity of "Milan" to the shoot downs together with possible tracks to/from the target area to narrow it down. Also the time of day might help. I did locate the mission details once but cannot find them. For example on the mission that Ed was wounded I believe 183 B-17's attacked Piombino steel works and the 30th mission was to 'Milan'.

Bolognia is certainly on track to Milan from Sterapone [Foggia] where they were based. Not sure where Padua is only that it is in the NE of Italy. Of course they could have tracked up the Adriatic as a feint and then headed West...

If the aircraft was hit by flak over Milan then it is possible that it may be the lower level intercept by Ostrowitski which occurred at 5,000m???

A detailed reading of the whole Missing Air Crew Report n. 4612 should be or great help both to understand the possible development of the events and to define the area where the plane crashed (usually a small hand-drawn map is enclosed in the report to locate the place where the plane was last seen).

This could allow to determine if or which of the claims could be related to the downing of that particular B-17.

OK I'll try and obtain it...

Not much help perhaps...
 

The diary of Stab/JG 77 for 28 April says this:

1328–1454 hours: 5 Bf109 of Stab JG77 scramble. Take-off order from Jafü. Gruppe and Stab directed to the BOLOGNA area. The order to land ensued since the hostiles came no further north.

SUNDAY, 30 APRIL 1944

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force):
464th Bombardment Group (Heavy) with B-24s becomes the 19th operational bomb
group.
Around 500 bombers, with fighter escort, attack targets in Italy; B-17s hit
industrial areas at Milan and Varese and the Reggio Emilia air depot; the B-24s
bomb marshalling yards at Alessandria and Milan.
HQ 485th Bombardment Group (Heavy) and 828th, 829th, 830th and 831st
Bombardment Squadrons (Heavy) arrive at Venosa, Italy from the US with B-24s;
first mission is 10 May.

FRIDAY, 28 APRIL 1944

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Fifteenth Air Force):
Clearing weather again permits bomber operations; 450+ B-17s and B-24s
attack targets in Italy; 188 B-17s bomb Piombino Steel Works and port; 168
B-24s bomb the port area at San Stefano al Mare; and 108 B-24s bomb the port
area at Orbetello; P-38s, P-51s and P-47s provide escort.
32d Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron, 90th Photographic Wing
(Reconnaissance), arrives at San Severo, Italy from the US with F-5s; first
mission is 18 May.

Just found this:

Just found this on the web. V/interesting account.

A True 1944 Adventure

by Lawrene R. Landwehr

W256S4895 Wood Lilly Lane

Waukesha, WI 53189


At 7:46 AM, Sunday, April 29, 1944, our B17F fortress bomber, the Chief
Wahoo, took off from our 483rd BG base at Foggia Italy, with 10 men and
12-500 lb load of demolition bombs. With the rest of our formation, we were
to destroy a factory at Milan in Northern Italy.


Our pilot, Hilmer Landholt, our bombardier Floyd Bowles, myself at age 24,
and eight more of us were briefed that this would be a "Milk Run". All we
had to do was fly up there, drop our bombs, and come back to our base. All
the Italians and Germans would be in church!


Sad to say, intelligence was wrong. During and after our run on the target,
heavy flak rocked our plane. An 88 projectile went through the wing between
number 3 and 4 engines, exploding above us. Immediately #3 engine caught
fire. The pilot pulled the handle and extinguished the fire with the CO2
rings around it and feathered the prop! With the loss of power in that
engine, our plane had to drop out of the formation protection and start our
journey back home. A few minutes later, four ME 109s of the German Luftwaffe
engaged us because we were a straggler and without the protective firepower
of the squadron. In the ensuing battle, they made runs firing against our
plane from the nose, and then went under us to turn and come back from the
rear. The bombardier, by a sly trick, shot up one ME 109 so bad he had to
eject. I was at right waist and fired only 20-30 rounds from my flexible 50
caliber out the open window. All this time we were losing altitude; the
three engines could not keep us up. The pilot gave the order to bail out at
approximately 5,000 feet.


After pulling the rip cord and floating down, I noticed a creek running
across the road near where I would come down. Upon landing roughly, I
gathered my chute around me and back into the 3-foot culvert. In eight or
ten minutes, motorcycles, bicycles, and military vehicles searched for me.
They knew I had come down in that vicinity.


To plan my escape, I stayed in the culvert all Sunday night and all of the
next day and night. On my parachute harness I had fastened a Tropical
Survival Kit that I had picked up - water purifier, hacksaw blades, money
and maps. I then planned to walk to the Adriatic Sea, obtain a boat, and
paddle back to Foggia. I set out walking - walking 200 steps, then jogging
200 steps, an old Indian way to cover ground. The money was useless; people
ran away when I tried to buy a bicycles, food or other items. The third
night, I "borrowed" a suit coat from a clothesline to cover up my flying
coveralls.


Being too engrossed and eager to get back to our base, I got too bold. I put
a garden hoe over my shoulder and walked right through villages and over
bridges guarded by soldiers. Finally on the fifth day, while I walked down
the highway, a German soldier stopped me for a light for his cigarette.
Since I couldn't speak German, I shook my head and continued on. He rode his
bike in the opposite direction until another soldier joined him; both pulled
out their pistols and approached me asking for identification. All I could
do was shake my head, whereupon they marched me to the local jail. When they
searched me and found all those escape items, they thought I was a spy or a
fighter pilot. I had an English-speaking woman question me, but as you know,
I could only tell them my name, rank and serial number.


They must have gotten on the phone to German Headquarters, because the next
day they took me under guard to a railroad station and then through Bremmer
Pass and into Germany. In Frankfurt there was a central prison and SS troops
to interrogate Allied airmen and other POWs.


After 2 days and nights in a cell with only a straw bed on the floor and an
open drain for a potty, I was brought to a central room by a 7-ft. tall
guard and plunked down in a chair across from a German officer. He spoke
good English with an accent. He had a pack of Lucky Strike and Chesterfield
cigarettes in front of him. After offering me one, which I politely refused,
he proceeded to light up and blow clouds of smoke in my face. He didn't
realize I didn't smoke. He confirmed my name, rank and serial number and
then started berating me for fighting against them. My name Landwer means
(according to Webster's dictionary) the first German Land Army. Wehr macht
is their infantry fighting force. Suddenly he asked me how many tons of
bombs the B29 would tote to the target and what was the top speed? With no
answers to another five questions, he motioned to the guard to take me to my
cell.


Lunch consisted of a cup of watery soup of potato peels, cabbage or
rutabagas with some broth, a slice of black bread, margarine and one 3"
slice of wurst. Shortly I was taken to the same room with a different SS
officer who said that since I was found with escape items and a civilian
jacket, I was a sure candidate to be shot as a spy unless I cooperated with
answers to questions about our base, missions, and future targets! With no
answers to their dozen questions, I was returned to my cell to "think it
over" seriously before it was too late.


In four more sessions in which I told them nothing, my final SS officer
berated me: "You think we Germans are stupid. Look at this." He pushed a
report of my crew, each position and each man's name, rank and even civilian
occupation in front of me. When I showed no surprise, he said "For you the
war is over", and that I was to be sent to an Airman's POW camp to spend my
days until we lost the war.


That night I was loaded on a 40-8 boxcar with other POWs and arrived two
days later at Stalag Luft IV at Gross Tychoro. As POW 1036, my clothes were
exchanged for other used ones and I went into Compound A as the first group
to occupy a room with 15 other Kriegies. We had two tier wooden beds in our
barracks three feet off the ground to prevent tunneling.. There were 11
other rooms with just one wash room and two latrines.


On February 10, 1945, we left Luft IV; traveling in the Black March of 80
days and more than 620 miles in the winter. Along the way, some of us got
into 40-8 boxcars to Nurenburg. We were liberated May 5, 1945 by Patton's
Third Army at 7A Moosburg. After a voyage in convoy to the US, I was
discharged Sept. 15, 1945 at Fort McCoy, WI. At the rank of T/Sgt!!!

Very interesting story.

From the account we can tell that:

1) "Chief Wahoo" was hit over the target by flak;

2) the plane was forced to slow down and it became a straggler, slowly keeping behind of the main formation on the way home;

3) when Mr. Landwehr writes: "...A few minutes later, four ME 109s of the German Luftwaffe engaged us..." it is clearly a subjective memory, since time is always relative to each one of us, especially in high tension situations. So the event may have happened somewhat far from Milan, also considering that the bomber had started the return route, that it developed enough distance from the others to be a viable target and that the attacks certainly lasted for several minutes;

4) there is unfortunately no reference at all to the place where the pilot landed after bailing out (names or something like that). However, the fact that the crewman thought to make its way walking to reach the Adriatic coast should place the area at least on the southern border of the Padana Plain;

5) According to the place where the plane crashed and the hour of the crash, it should be easier to determine which one of the three German claim reports is referring to "Chief Wahoo". Last but not least, each is fortunately separate in time or location, which should ease things a bit.

5) it seems that you only have to try to get in touch with Mr. Landwehr (and obtain at the same time the MACR n.4612 of course) at his address!

Best of luck.

Viltro

Thanks. The date given in Mr Landwehr's account should be Sunday 30th April. My calculations would put the aircraft some 30-40 [max 50] nautical miles south or south-west of Milan went it went down. This is based on a descending airspeed of around 140knots and that they descended from around 20,000ft down to 5,000ft. Just spoke to Ed and he tells me that Larry Landwehr has lost his hearing but Ed is trying to contact his bombardier who lives near him in Michigan.

Sorry, but I think that the bomber did much more flight distance before crashing (considering all the events occurred before that moment). If you take a map of Italy, you'll see that south of Milan there is a plain extending much more than 50 miles. If the plane had crashed in that territory, the crew would have been captured in a matter of minutes, every German in the area being able to see the bomber crash.

Unless we know the exact route followed by the plane (or, at least, the route planned for that mission for the B-17s of 483rd BG, a data that could be obtained searching for the unit's mission report of that day...), any further deduction is pure guesswork.

The crashing point is the necessary start of the research, IMHO.

Few infos
 

Just few informations i found on Roger Anthoine's book "aviateur-pieton vers la Suisse, 1940-1945".
It is written on p.331 :
Sgt John Altgelt and Sgt Robert Goddard , crewmen from B17 from 483 BG, shooted down near Rovigo (I) on april 30 1944, in Swiss on may 28 1944, out of Swiss on september 13 1944.

Hope this could helps.

Stephane Muret

Re: Few infos
 

Thanks, Stephane, it definitely helps! As a matter of fact, Rovigo is a crash place perfectly compatible with this claim:

30.04.44 Uffz. Eberhard Lang: 3 2./JG 77 B-17 £ 30 km. S.W. Padua: 7.000 m. 11.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.141

I think this could be the solution.

Guys, wow, what great news. How do we find out about Lang and his unit?

Rovigo
 

Great to see this helps. I'm going to look to find more about Lang's unit. I've met pilots from JG77 few years before, perhaps could you have a contact. Just give me few days.

Keep in touch.

Stephane

Hi Stephane

Thanks. Now I wonder if we could establish what units would have attacked the 483rd BG on the big raid to Piombino on the 28th April. Ed's aircraft was damaged on that raid by a fighter and had to drop out of formation and land at an emergency landing strip prior to eventually returning to Sterapone. Ed was off loaded and placed in a field hospital.

Ok guys. Would the units intercepting raids on the west coast around Piombino steel works be from the same Luftwaffe units?

Any leads on photographs or drawings of 3./JG 77 aircraft circa 1944 in Italy??? I'm going to have an artist do a painting of "Chief Wahoo" and maybe its tangle with the 109..

Re: Air combat Italy April '44
 

I am looking for German fighter which hit the American P38 south of Bologna on April 28, 1944 around noon.
The plane was a P38 photographic reconnaissance and was piloted by George H.Hunsler from Bari belonging to the 12th Air Force, 15th Squadron, 5th Photographic, he died in the crash!
Thanks Stefano

Re: Air combat Italy April '44
 

Hi, the place called Vannette is located on the outskirts of Fratta Polesine. Avio pieces of B-17 are also visible. A GNR report confirms date and crash.
Elena

Re: Air combat Italy April '44
 

The GNR report also says that on that day there was air combat and this would be the cause of the crash. I found witnesses in Pontelagoscuro that recall the passage of the B-17 already hit and escorted by two fighters (I ignore if Germans or Italians).
This is a report GNR:
"Il 30 aprile c.m. alle ore 12.30, in seguito a combattimento aereo, un quadrimotore americano precipitò nei pressi di Fratta Polesine (Rovigo). I componenti dell’equipaggio, lanciatisi col paracadute, vennero immediatamente catturati dalla G.N.R."