Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

All

In May 1940 an 85 Sqdn Hurricane L1639 crashed into a field near a small wooded area, in France, it having been the victim of a Bf-109 of JG 26. The RAF pilot, Parnell, bailed out.
Does anyone know the rank and first name of Parnell and have details of the combat?

TIA
Dave

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Dave,

Your information is incorrect. The date was 14 May 1940 and details are as follows:

504 SQUADRON, LILLE-MARCQ



Hurricane L1639. Shot down in combat with Bf109s of III./JG26and crashed at ‘Hameau de Caillou’, Chaussée-Notre-Dame-Louvignies, 5.40 p.m. Possibly that claimed by Lt Blume of 7./JG26. Squadron Leader James Boyd PARNALL killed. Aircraft a write-off.
The date of death of this officer is recorded by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission as May 15.

Source: The Battle of France Then & Now (2007)

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Hi Peter

Many thanks for your swift response, most appreciated-as is the correct information!. The remains of this aircraft are the basis of a rebuild by the Cambridge Bomber & Fighter Society, as you may already know.

regards
Dave

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Bonjour,

For S/L J. B. Parnall, I have collected several documents saying he flew Hurricane No. L1941!:
- L1941: S/L Parnall, F.B., killed (Royal Air Force Historical Branch).
- L1941: 504 Sqn, pilote inconnu ; missing over France, 14.5.40 (Masson F. K., 1990).

I have one source saying that the aircraft at Chaussée is No. K3527:
- K3527: British fighter a/c reported as Spitfire came down 1730 14/5 at Chaussées NO (?) or Nr (?) Louvignies K3527. Pilot attempted jump but got caught at wing and was killed. Unable yet to obtain name. Gendarmerie state Canadian (The National Archive).

Matricule 90060 killed on May 15 and buried at Chaussee-Notre-Dame-Louvignies (GWGC).

L1639: S/L Parnall (Franks N.).
Abattu au « hameau du Caillou » (TDIM).

I don’t know why you say that S/L Parnall was in L1639 and not in L1941?
Do you know what type of aircraft is K3527?

Bon vol

Arnaud

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Hi Arnaud

Interesting, thanks. I have been given an article on the rebuild of the Hurricane and am wanting to check some of the historical facts-which are obviously wrong!
So we currently have Parnall being lost in two different machines that day, and now another 'unknown' as well. Nothing is easy I guess!

regards
Dave

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

K3527 is recorded as a Fairey Seal, lost 13.1.1938.....so clearly something wrong with that number, Arnaud.

As a matter of interest, DaveM2, what is the basis of the rebuild of L1639?

Is there some recovered wreckage with an identity and provenance that can be attached to it?

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Bonjour,

Agreed. Something's wrong with this number K3527, but I don't know where is the mistake the "K", the "3"... If someone has an idea? The report seems clear: it is a fighter: pilot killed...

Bye

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

P3527 was a Hurricane!
But I have no traces/references to it being operated nor lost in France.

Pieter

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Hello,

Can you confirmed if this Hurricane crashed well in France ? As there is - by coincidence - a village named 'Chaussée-Notre-Dame-Louvignies' with the hamlet 'Le Caillou' in Belgium too and one source (currently not at hand) states this aircraft crashed in Belgium.

Best regards

ClinA-78

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Arnaud

As I am sure you will have found, often times serial numbers were incorrectly recorded from crash sites and this might sometimes have been due to damage caused in the crash and from fire etc. Also, quite often reports quoted the aircraft number which was actually a part number found on a piece of wreckage or engine etc. So, this could be the case here I suppose. It might also be a case of looking at how all the numbers might have been misread...eg a 2 for a 3 an 8 for a 0 or a 7 for a 5 or a 6 for and 8.....etc etc etc.

So many permutations.....!! But then I am trying to teach an already well experienced researcher and investigator.

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Andy

This is all I was given re the recovery:

Recovered several years ago in France, following the discovery of location of the wreck through the help of a former 85 Squadron member, the late Joe Rogers, who served with the Sqdn when it was stationed there......

I will try and secure more info.

Was 85 Sqdn based at the Lille -Marcq as well as 504?

Clin A-78, France is stated, although nothing would surprise me!

regards
Dave

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Hello,

Well, searching the first piece of the puzzle!
Where did the aircraft crashed? In France or Belgium?
There is no "Chaussée-Notre-Dame-Louvignies" in France, albeit a "Louvignies" near Bavay. However there is a small village named "Chaussée-Notre-Dame-Louvignies" close to a "Louvignies" with the hamlet "Le Caillou", all situated West of Soignies. As 504 Sqn losses occured in the area roughly between Brussels-Ath, so is there a chance Parnall's crashsite is in Belgium?
What was the amount of wreckage found?
I have no knowledge of a dig there.

Best regards

ClinA-78

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Hello,

I am pretty sure S/L Parnall’s Hurricane was never dug up. So there is a good chance for you to find his aircraft near Louvignies in Belgium deep in the ground. If you find it and dig this one up, I am pretty sure it is n° L1941 Hurricane.

Wait and see and good luck in finding the wreckage of this Hurricane.

Bon vol

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Excuse me I have forgotten to mention this possibility: obviously not n° K3527 but a number close to K3527 (read ?????)... Wait and see...

- K3527: British fighter a/c reported as Spitfire came down 1730 14/5 at Chaussées NO (?) or Nr (?) Louvignies K3527. Pilot attempted jump but got caught at wing and was killed. Unable yet to obtain name. Gendarmerie state Canadian (The National Archive).

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Hello Arnaud,

I don't know even if Parnall's Hurricane was salvaged or remains buried into the ground but yes, it needs an investigation there... Why are you pretty sure that his aircraft was never dug up? Have you any doc confirming that?
Arnaud, you speak about L1639 OR L1941 (P/O Sibley's L1941, still MIA, but this is another story...;))???

As written in N.Franks FC Losses, he is buried in Chaussée-Notre-Dame-Louvignies, in Belgium.

F/O M.E.A. Royce bailed out and his aircraft crashed in LOUVIGNIES. Same combat so I presume same crashlocation area?
I presume this was not Parnall's aircraft recovered in France. Moreover Dave speaks about a 85 Sqn pilot who bailed out. So I think this a case of 'melting-pot' (mixing info's)!
Any sweep here ?

ClinA-78

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Hello ClinA-78,

The Fighter Command losses book from N. Franks is interesting but there are many mistakes. Actually I don't know how M. Franks could write that this pilot or this one was in that or that Hurricane except if it is mentioned in O.R.B. which is quite rare.

According to accident cards from the Royal Air Force historical branch:
- S/L Parnall was in L1941 and P/O Sibley in L1943... What it is written in books is another story...

I don't know who piloted L1639... I need for that a good description about what was found on site and where was it ?

I think DaveM2 is working on it...

Bon vol

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Hello Arnaud,

For Parnall:
http://www.inmemories.com/Cemeteries/chaussee.htm

oulàlàlà... It becomes complicated!:D
As anyone already identified the Hurricane of Dave or give a precise crashlocation as the aircraft (or parts of) were recovered for some months/years???
We are waiting his reply.

Best regards

ClinA-78

Re: Pilot of Hurricane L1639?
 

Hi Guys

I have been informed that only components were recovered, they include rudder pedals, control cables etc, however several data plates were also found. The wreckage will eventually make up about 20 % of the rebuilt aircraft, with several other components coming from Russian wrecks contributing more.
Hopefully more info to come!

regards
Dave