05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

My father was shot down on January 5th, 1944 - b-17 from 410th of the 94th bomb group. Plane called li'l butch. He evaded capture with help from the French. My father passed away in April and I was doing some research my family.

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

What's you father name?
I can have a look about it.

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

Fathers name -Lt. Hugh Shields.
The area they were shot down was Cissac-Medoc, France.

Curious about fighters credited with shooting down b-17. There were multiple fighters engaged when they went down.

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

google "Li'l Butch" gives a picture with:

41-9085 "Li'l Butch" Photo date unknown Also known by the name "Jarrin' Jenny" The only B-17E to serve with the 447th, also flew with the 303rd, 92nd, and 97th. Declared war-weary, written off and salvaged in England during July, 1945"

so there was another one with the same name ?

GC

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

There must have been. I do believe there is a reference to "l'il butch- 2" that I have seen. Funny, also after my fathers plane went down, someone wrote about being confused by seeing "l'il butch" at an airfield. There was also a fighter with the name "l'il butch" in the ETO.

His was a b-17 g. I have serial # at home. He was in the 410th. of the 94th BG. The plane blew up just after my father bailed out only one other survivor got out ahead of him.

Do you now the Luftwaffe fighter group designation for Merignac during that time?

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

MACR 1891 serial 42-30112 Lil Butch
94BG 410BS
callsign GL-Z
Shot down by german fighters. 7 KIA; 1 POW; 2 EVD 1891
Pilot 2nd lt Allan C. Powell
2nd lt. Robert O. Anderson (EVADED)
sgt. Donald N. Boyer
sgt. Wesley D. Geist
sgt. Goble Miracle
2nd lt. Thomas H. Hudson
2nd lt Hugh C. Shields (EVADED)
sgt. Delmar C. Broyles
s/sgt. Alton M. Brown
s/sgt Roland C. Sims

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

Hi,

The only relevant Luftwaffe victory claims for B-17s that I could find were:

- B-17 shot down near Aubigné, north of Rennes, at 12:00 by the 9. Staffel of Jagdgeschwader 2, flying FW 190s (370 km from Bordeaux)

- B-17 shot down shot down at Lac Hourtin at 11:07 by the 3. Staffel of Zerstörergeschwader 1, flying Ju 88s (50 km from Bordeaux)

So it seems that your father's aircraft was downed by 3./Z.G. 1.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

I believe that Ofw Kurt Gaebler of 3/ZG 1 got 'Lucky Lady' of 337 BS-the German crew said it crashed on the Lac Hourtin whilst the American crew say they ditched on or by a lake

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

I appreciate the assistance. It is a very impressive forum. Just to add to the mystery. I don't believe that it was the b-17 at lac hourtin. (maybe). But the plane definitely exploded prior to hitting the ground it did not ditch. Just as my father bailed. He landed in a farmers field where there were some ground troops. They shot at and pursued him. He hid in bushes til nightfall then walked northwest (he figured get away from coast where armament stations were). He ended up at the town of cissac-medoc. So it would be a pretty hefty walk at night 40km - could be. There was another b-17 shoot down nearby - my father described seeing it pull a full loop while he was on the ground.

Lastly there is a slight error in the report on "l'il butch" above. There were 8 KIA and 2 evaded - we came across this before - all the remains of the the KIA are accounted for. There were no POW's.

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

Some info in french here :

http://francecrashes39-45.net/rech_avion.php

Recherche par Avion :

Date (jj/mm/aaaa) :
05/01/1944

Département :
Gironde

Type d'avion :
B-17 Fortress

Matricule :
Lieu du crash :
Macr (USA) :

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

During the American 5-Jan-'44 mission against Bordeaux, a total of 11 B17 were lost (4 B17 of the 94th BG, 5 B17 of the 96th BG, 1 B17 of the 388th BG and finally 1 B17 of the 447th BG). Among these, at least 10 were probably shot down by German fighters. Therefore I think there should be more claims.

Best regards

Marco

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

Thanks - do you have lists of those shot down. I might be able to reverse my search - process of elimination. Thanks.
There are good records out there on Luftwaffe - but I have had a bit of trouble sorting through the squadrons.

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

Missing 05.01.1944:


A/C Serial # A/C Type Group Squadron MACR
42-30444 B-17 94 332 1893
42-30724 B-17 305 364 1685
42-30155 B-17 305 366 1684
42-30794 B-17 306 369 1683
42-31093 B-17 379 525 1944
42-5827 B-17 379 526 1942
42-30676 B-17 381 532 1962
42-3544 B-17 385 4477
42-5899 B-17 388 560 3118
42-37872 B-17 447 708 1688
42-31212 B-17 94 331 1890
42-30112 B-17 94 410 1891
42-30200 B-17 94 410 1892
42-30244 B-17 95 334 1687
42-37734 B-17 95 336 1686
42-31164 B-17 96 337 2012
42-30665 B-17 96 339 2014
42-3541 B-17 96 339 2011
42-37808 B-17 96 339 2015
42-39816 B-17 96 339 2013

Re: 05/01/1944 b-17 shot down Bordeaux, France info on Luftwaffe claims
 

Thank you