A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Hello All,

Thanks to Marc-André I've been able to get one pictures of this plane which is in "Bergstrom and Pegg 2005, p184a" book.
Last week I got this picture:
http://cgi.ebay.de/FOTO-JAGD-FLUGZEU...item20b4fb6bef
and I did put it in my small Bf109s eBay chronical - but don't ask me where!.
Anyway, here it is again.
Don't you think it's the same plane? For those who have the book to compare of course.
I think it is. and it's a G-6y; look at the Morane antenna beneath fuselage.

Comments?

Cheers, Franck.

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Hi there Franck,

Most interesting. The machines are obviously the same but oddly enough, the Morane antenna doesn't show on all three pictures published by Christer Bergström and Martin Pegg, on p. 184 and 185 of their 2005 opus: Jagdwaffe, Volume V, Section 2. War in the East 1944 - 1945, Classic Publications.

Cheers
Marc

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Hello Marc,

This is the only one where we can see the Morane antenna - in fact there is another picture which was on eBay too, the week before! - and effectively we can't see it on the three pictures which are in Bergström and Martin Pegg's book.

For those who haven't the book - like me - you can compare with the picture here: http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=5834

No tail wheel, trees in the background and the camouflage on cowling.

Tschüss, Franck.

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Hi Franck, could you please post this other ebay photo you mentioned or send me a PM? Somehow I have missed it.

Some additional thoughts: the location is actually spelled Braunshardt (syllable division between "Brauns" and "hardt". This was an unfinished airfield intended for use by jet fighter units near Darmstadt.
For this reason I also doubt that this Bf109 belonged to I./JG 53, as this unit was never based in this region so late in the war. Instead 160087 was likely attached either to Stab, II. or III./JG 53, which were all stationed in the Darmstadt area during September and October 1944. If you'd ask me, I would go for Stab/JG 53, but as I am not sure whether or how consistently II. and III./JG 53 used the usual Gruppen bars I won't exclude them. In any case, this aircraft likely belonged to a Stabsstaffel or Stabsschwarm.
The date at which this aircraft could have been left at Braunshardt (autumn 1944) also explains why this is an older G-6 example. From different photos we know that JG 53 was pretty well equipped with the latest variants of the Bf 109 when the war ended. So most likely 160087 was left behind when JG 53 left central Germany and headed southwards in October 1944.

Regards,
Christian

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Hello Christian,

Thank you for the correction and additional comments.
Actually David Weiss didn't advance anything concerning group and staffel, I suppose the "guess" belongs to the said book where the pictures are published; it's not even a "1" but better an "I".
Here are the two pictures as reminder.
... Well, more or less it's the same :D.

Regards, Franck.

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Thanks for posting, Franck!

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Hi there Christian and Franck,

Christian, thanks for your detailed thoughts about "Weisse I". Your's is a most interesting hypothesis to trace back the discarding of this machine in the Autumn 1944. Or did it serve as a Staffel hack?

Franck,

Un grand merci for this new pic!

Cheers
Marc

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

You are welcome, both.

Of course we can see the unit emblem on cowling, hence JG53.
Is it that sure?
The said cowling looks like a spare one for me. Did these JG53 planes already got the black band when the plane has been left? This band looks clearer than black.
I just readed somewhere that plane was used by JG301; is it possible?

Thanks, Franck.

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Cowling do look different then the rest of airframe.

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

At some point in the war JG 53 shared planes with JG 300, but as far as I know this was around 1943/44 when JG 300 still performed night fighter duties so I didn't take this into account. I am not very firm with this mid war issue though...

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Hi there,

Christian, I give you the link: I was googling for Braunshardt and this did appear:
http://asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/Bf-109G-JG53-W(I+).html Read the red comments and thanks, too.

Regards, Franck.

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

I have several images of this machine that I got from Jim Crow a number of years ago. Even though this machine has a JG 53 unit badge, as I recall by the location for the photos, this machine had passed from JG 53 some time previously and was likely assigned to some training unit. Which one, no bloody idea.

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

Definitely an interesting machine... Would it be possible to post those other pictures?

Thanks in advance
Marc

Re: A Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 160 087 "Weisse 1", I./JG 53, Braunschardt, 1945. on eBay?
 

I can try - may take some time.