1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Many years ago a national newspaper in the UK carried a story about a roll of Agfa film that a souvenir hunter had taken from the cockpit of an Me 109 shot down "near Lewes" during the Battle of Britain.

I managed to contact the owner of the film, who had only just had the pictures developed then (1970s) and obtained prints. Here are some of them, which seem to show some event or other in 1940. The question is what and where? And when? As to who...some are obvious, but I'd appreciate help in adding in any names.

The mystery as to which Me 109 this could have been endures, but perhaps 12/8/40 (Berwick) or 15/9/40 (Isfield). The 11/9/40 (Lewes) or 27/9/40 (Selmeston) seem less likely.

Here are a few of the images.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Hi Andy
Given Muncheberg is wearing his Knights Cross, which was awarded on 14 September, it would need to be late September at the earliest. After his 20th claim on 14 September he did not claim again until 17 October.

Russell

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Russell

Very good point....and although I had earlier looked up Munchenberg's RK award date I have no idea why I didn't think to look at that in conjunction with the dates I suggested. Doh!! My excuse? Too early in the day.

However, if the "Lewes" story is correct then maybe we need to be looking a bit wider afield than the geographic locations I suggested.

How about Karl Raisinger's Me109 at Saltdean on 25 October 1940? Not too far from Lewes.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

I think I see FM Milch in there as well.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Hi VtinVince,

oh yes, he is on 3 of the 4 images and it is even written on the photos.:D

Cheers
Horst

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Hi Andy,
let me first of all thank you for posting this images. It seems that the entire Luftwaffe fighter force attended the one man lifeboat raft exercise in September 1940. We can identify Oberst von Doering between Milch and Trautloft according to the attached image which I have taken from: JG54, A Photographic History.
More to come.
Cheers
Horst

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Horst

Thank you for that!

Here is one more from that roll of film.

Could this be Karl Raisinger of 3./JG 77?

If so, then the link to him with these photographs could be established.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Hi Andy,
just another character identifiedhttp://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon7.gif. In your image with no 5 marked, we see Lt Neumann(Julius?). On my attached image we can see him standing next to Major Mettig, Kdre JG 54 back in August 1940, welcoming GFM Milch during juvenescence procedure of Geschwaderkommodores. At the time when your posted images have been taken, Neumann was still with JG54.
Cheers
Horst

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Hi Andy,
I am not so good with JG77 but with your approval I will send the Raisinger Photo to a "buddy" to obtain more info.
BTW Kracker has Raisinger coming down at Telscombe, Sussex. See attached excerpt.
Research is going on.
Cheers
Horst

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Andy-There is a good photo of Raisinger in my Fighters Battle for you to compare with. I am currently away so cannot do this
Chris

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Thanks Chris!

Knew I'd seen one somewhere.

He certainly looks very similar, but hard to say 100%.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Horst

By all means - and thank you!

Yes, Telscombe would be a more accurate location probably. From memory I think it was near the Balsdean Pumping Station - to the north of Saltdean, but possibly in the parish of Telscombe.

As the crow flies (or rather the Messerschmitt!) its about 2.5 miles from Lewes, so fits the "near Lewes" description quite well.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Hi participants,
I come back to the identification of persons and attach cut-outs of Andys images, where the Jagdfliegerfuehrer 2, Oberst Hans Bertram von Doering can be clearly discovered.
Last night I went thru the Biography of the late former GFM Milch (rise and fall of the luftwaffe) to find out the exact location on the french channel coast, where this event has happened, but could not find anything. What do we have so far: The meeting has been attended by top brass Luftwaffe personal. Milch, Udet, von Doering, Coeler (Kdr 9.Luftdivision), Trautloft...and the occasion has happened in 2nd half of september 1940. There must be further leading details available, I think. I will go on.
Cheers
Horst

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

I think i saw something like this in a wochenschau. I will see of i can find it again.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Horst

Something makes me think of the Le Touquet area when I look at that building. I may be wildly out, of course, but its not unreasonable to assume that is somewhere between Wissant, say, and Le Touquet anyway.

It would be terrific to identify the building - as well as more specifics of the event.

Oh, and I remain of the view that the image of the man on the beach could certainly be Karl Raisinger. The similarity is striking.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Hi Andy,
do you have the comparable photo, which Chris mentioned and could you post it, or shall we wait for Chris to post it?
Horst

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Horst

All I could do would be to scan the photo from Chris' book (page 190 of 'Luftwaffe Fighters Battle of Britain') but am reluctant to do that unless Chris is happy.

Otherwise, he might be able to post the photo when he gets back.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Andy

That is ok for me. Other question: Would you allow me to post one of your images over to LBB (Luftwaffe Bullet Board hosted by Bert Hartmann). There are mainly german speaking members but I am convinced that I could get answers of a)location b)date of the event c)ID of some more persons d)comparible photo of Karl Raisinger.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Horst

No problem.

Be my guest - and good luck!

Andy

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Andy, LBB was a hit. Date: 19. September 1940, location: beach of Wissant, list of important or well known attendants: Galland, Moelders, Luetzow, Pingel, Schellmann, Jopien all Fighter Pilots of JaFue 2. Identified: Lt Werner Pichan Kalau vom Hofe,Stab JG54, Oblt Guenther Scholz, III.JG54. Karl Raisinger Photo is under research.
There is a little story behind the exercise, interested? Than I have to translate it...
Cheers
Horst

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Horst

Well, thank you very much kind Sir!

Of course, I am very interested in the story you mention.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Andy: Scan & post photo-too busy to do it myself as I am off to sunnier climes (Gibraltar, not Afghanistan which is the week after) until middle next week
Chris

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Thanks Chris.

What is the verdict?

Could the man striding up the beach be Karl Raisinger, centre on this image.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Here it comes: The "demonstration" for all fighter pilots in the range of Jagdfliegerfuehrer 2 in northern France happened on Sept 19th 1940. It was planned that a parachutist from the Erprobungsstelle Rechlin (Flight Test Command Rechlin) should bail out of a transport plane, carry with him a 1 man rubber dinghi, dive into the sea and inflate the rubber boat with the attached compressed air tank and climb aboard. Due to the heavy swell, the jump was cancelled and instead the "jumper" was brought out to the sea with a motor-boat. Once in the water he rid himself from the parachute, blew up his dinghi and brought himself safely into the boat. During the effort to reach the coast the dinghi went upside down due to the heavy surf and the inmate nearly drowned. Nevertheless the look-on fighter pilots were convinced of the usefulness of the 1 man rubber dinghi in operation especially with all the "heavy brass" in between the crowd clapping and nodding. The experience proofs that this dinghi saved more than one pilots life.

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

I vote, yes its him. As soon as I get other images of him I will post them here. BTW Andy, "google" gave me the attachments for Karl Raisinger, There is a row of his belly landed Messerschmitt and even a colour profile. I own your "Baders last flight" its great, so if you plan to publish the story of Raisinger, let us know here in timehttp://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon7.gif.

Cheers
Horst

Re: 1940 - Who, what, where and when?
 

Horst

Thank you very much for that.

I'd welcome other views as to whether or not it is Karl Raisinger in the beach shot, by the way.

Certainly an interesting set of photographs and an intriguing story behind their arrival in the UK during 1940 - albeit unseen and unknown by RAF Air Intelligence. One supposes that they might have made interesting viewing for AI(k) officers of the time.

Yes, Horst, I have a number of Karl Raisinger related photos - most of them are quite well known. However, I haver recently seen a "private" shot of the aircraft on site which has not previously seen the light of day.

Thank you again, and thanks for your kind words about "Bader's Last Fight". And no, there aren't any plans for a book about the 'Raisinger photos'. I fear it would make a rather small and uninteresting publication to say the very least.