What are these aircraft?
 

Hi all,

Can anyone ID the two unknown aircraft in the photo below? The photo was taken in June 1942. Even to a Luftwaffe novice like myself, the Go 242s and Ju-52s are clear, but the other two are eluding me. The one on the right looks like it might be a glider but it doesn't look like a DFS 230.

Any and all help appreciated. Many thanks!
Jason

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Edit: Now that I look at it again, I suppose the one on the right could be a Ju-52. Actually, I believe it is. Still, that leaves the other plane.

Jason

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Hi Jason

The right looks like a Siebel Si204 and the left looks like a Piaggo P.108

Cheers

Peter van Gogh

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

On the right, looks to be a Ju 52. The one on the left may be an He 111? Or an Fw 200, though it looks to be too small.

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Wow, they are completely different identifications!

By using the wingspans of the Ju-52 and Go-242, I've roughly calculated that the wingspans of both unknown planes are about 32.6 metres, give or take a metre. Maybe this will help pin down the IDs.

Thanks to both of you for your help.
Jason

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

I've estimated the wingspan of the unknown plane on the left to be 32.6 metres. The Fw 200's was 32.85 metres, the He 111's was 22.6 metres.

Jason

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Hi
The wreck to the right is a Ju52 with engines removed. The aircraft to the left is smaller in size and has twin engines. It appears to have quite small engine cowlings/nacelles and narrower wings than the He111. It could be a Si204 but this type was quite rare at this time.
Because of the blunt nose shape I would tend to lean towards the Caudron C.445. It does not appear to me to be a Fw200 as this would give it a much larger outline than the existing Ju52s

Regards

Tom Willis

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

I am 99.9% sure the one on the left is an Si204. 100% the one on the right is a Ju52.

Mike

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Hi there,
the shadows of the left aircraft reveal a single tailfin, so no Si 204. I would opt for a Ju 88 minus its starboard wing and maybe without left engine too..

Christian

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Hi
Having studied the foto again I am certain that this is a Caudron C.445.
The unique wing shape of the design gives the clue, being quite broad up to the engines and then tapers sharpley back in a swept-back shape. I have already mentioned the other design features being - blunt nose and narrow engine nacelles. At this time of mid 1942 the type was widely used over all fronts.

Regards

Tom Willis

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Ok, after some additional checking I think Tom is right. Take a look at this photo, for comparison:

http://www.lietadla.com/lietadla/fra...n-c-445-10.jpg

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Hi Christian
Thanks for the link. The wing shape is quite distinctive. I forgot to add the distance from the cockpit window in relation to the nose also confirms C.445.
Does anyone know the location of the foto? Either North Africa/Crete or Russia?

Regards

Tom Willis

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

It's a JU 86: wing span was 32m, C 445 got only 17,59m

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Hi Quidjat

Thanks for the notes on the wing spans. But I would like to point out that the Ju86 has a twin tail-fin while this aircraft has a single fin clearly defined by its shadow. Clearly the aircraft has a smaller wing-span than the Ju52s but much the same as the Gotha242s. What was the Go242s span in meters?

Regards

Tom Willis

Re: What are these aircraft?
 

Guys

I am not sure who measured the wing span, but you can't measure the identified Ju 52 on top with the enlarged unidentified objects.
Doing my own measurement, Ju 52 on top has basically the same dimensions as the now identified Ju 52 without engines to the right.
The so called C.445 to the left is too much damaged for me to give an opinion, but the same goes there, you have to try and measure the object in its real size in the picture and not vs the enlarged object.

Cheers
Stig