ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Hello,

Has anybody got an ID for this probable Battle of Britain 109 FL on French Beach? Are other photos known of this aircraft?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...OIBUAA:US:1123

Regards,

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Another photo here:
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...ndpost&p=68961
Br/Goran

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Jesus...
176 Euros for a picture! The guy who bought it certainly knows the identity...
Yours
Adriano
PS: 176 Euros is almost 55% of the Minimum Salary in Brazil...

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Another ex-ebay auction shot

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Trying to remember where the other photos may be - is this the same aircraft pictured in one of the Lw in Focus issues, I think from a bluff overlooking a beach in France, being towed by a halftrack? As I recall, that photo was from 1941, and was of a machine from fighter training unit. I'm probably wrong and need to review the Lw in Focus issues, but to my recollection, the general appearance and markings of the machine were the same.

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Hi Larry,

I think it is brown 6+ from 3.(J)/LG 2 (see on special yellow nose and unique number 6). Probably September 1940. Is riddled.
On this Luftwaffe side has been last week discussion.

Marek (from CZ)

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Hello,

@Chris, need a help to get the right picture???
@Markus Braune 6 outlined in White?...

See This EXCELLENT thread, last post (mine) :D
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=24648 ...No need to go elsewhere.

I did take the picture out:....
Last time - another plane - I did put a picture on request I didn't hear "THANK YOU" yet!

Franck.

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Yep Franck's right there is a discussion on this one already maybe this thread should be merged.

But another thought: the 'six' is rather curious because normally Luftwaffe 6's curled top end ends in a diagonal, this six has a flat, horizontal ending.
After studying lots of photographs, the only units to use this style of six were JG 51, JG 2 and JG 3. My theory is that, of the three aforementioned units, this is an ex-JG 51 machine specifically 5./JG 51 because the unit marking, the woodpecker, has been painted out just aft of the balkankreuz.

Franck, I also think Markus may have a point as wasn't Bf-109E-7 W.Nr. 2058, 3./LG 2 of Uffz. August Klick a 'white outlined Brown 2' ? Our photo in discussion also had very similar markings to this one.

Cheers

Chris

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Yes, You're right Chris, SORRY Markus !!! :o.

So if we consider the seller is right: Wissant AND October we stay (inside known loss list of course) with a Bf109E-7, WNr.2032 of 3.(J)./LG 2, Bruch 20% following Prien loss list, on 29/10/1940.
... Mmmmm, that loss (with 25%.) was attribuated to Marseille in a former thread, in TOCH, some times ago ?! And I did kept it like that in my datas!

Funny that continuous & permanent way & back between Marseille losses & Wissant in these columns... Should we consider that between ALL the pictures we got on eBay, one of them does concern one of Marseille's losses, definitly ???

Or, most probably, should we think that those sellers are trying to "sell us" a Marseille loss picture writing Wissant as understatement? Because this picture is showing us a plane on a beach; nothing more. Could be Wissant, Cap gris nez or Ambleteuse either: it's the same area.

Regards, Franck.

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Hello,

Thanks to all of you for your comments and posting the photo. I must admit, that I missed the earlier discussion about this photo on the LEMB Board, and the previous TOCH photo listing. My opinion is that I agree with Marek (Markus) that this is a 3.(J)/LG2 aircraft. This said after reviewing the relevant photos in the EOE DB. If other unit emblems have been overpainted, a plane coming back from a repair depot could explain that, and not be indicative of the current unit.

Regarding the speculation about this being one of the Marseille's planes, I thought that he was assigned to 1 Staffel, not 3 Staffel during this period. I think that, without further supporting evidence, that this is way too far a stretch for that conclusion.

Regards,

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

You're pleased to read this:

All Emil losses listed below - one of the machine from Apr-41 was coded 'yellow 7' per Wübbe. Don't remember which one specifically.
Bf 109E-4, 3579, MARSEILLE, Fhr. Hans-Joachim, 158, , 1.(J), LG 2, weiße, 14 +, CK+CT, , 02-Sep-40, Bruchlandung., , Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IV.2, p.399; Prien, JG 77, I, p.373; Mason, p.341; BoB, T&N, p.617, , Fl.Pl. Calais-Marck, 50%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 5094, MARSEILLE, Fhr. Hans-Joachim, , , 1.(J), LG 2, , , , , 23-Sep-40, Luftkampf. Ditched into Kanal. F rescued., , Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IV.2, p.401; Prien, JG 77, I, p.393; Mason, p.408; BoB, T&N, p.656., , Kanal, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 5579, MARSEILLE, Fhr. Hans-Joachim, 158, , 1.(J), LG 2, , , , , 11-Sep-40, Notlandung after Luftkampf with Hurricane., Loss report says WNr.5797. Latest Prien says 5579., Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IV.2, p.399; Prien, JG 77, I, p.385; Mason, p.382; BoB, T&N, p.638, , Wissant, 75%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 2032, MARSEILLE, Hans-Joachim, , , 3.(J), LG 2, , , , , 29-Oct-40, Bruchlandung after Luftkampf., Is this Marseille??, Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IV.2, p.401; Prien, JG 77, I, p. 416; Mason, p.465; BoB, T&N, p.703, Prien letter, Wissant, 25%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, , MARSEILLE, Ltn. Hans-Joachim, , , 3., JG 27, , , , , 14-Jun-41, Notlandung due to engine damage., RK, EL, S, Br., X.Fl.Korps/Afrika, Wübbe, Marseille, p.22, , eigenem Gebiet, b, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, , MARSEILLE, Ltn. Hans-Joachim, , , 3., JG 27, , , , , 16-Jun-41, Notlandung due to Luftkampf over Tobruk. Blindlandung., RK, EL, S, Br., X.Fl.Korps/Afrika, Wübbe, Marseille, p.22, , Ain-el-Gazala, b, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, , MARSEILLE, Ofhr. Hans-Joachim, , , 3., JG 27, , , , , 06-Apr-41, Flak. Safe landing., , Balkan, Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, V, p.374; Prien/Rodeike/Stemmer, Stab & I./JG 27, p.539, , Raum Laibach, b, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 1259, MARSEILLE, Ofhr. Hans-Joachim, , , 3., JG 27, gelbe, 13 + (?), , , 20-Apr-41, Notlandung due to engine damage., , X.Fl.Korps/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, V, p.374; Prien/Rodeike/Stemmer, Stab & I./JG 27, p.540; Scutts, Bf 109 Aces of NA & the Med, p.28, , bei Cahela, 80%, H, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 5160, MARSEILLE, Ofhr. Hans-Joachim, , , 3., JG 27, gelbe, , , , 23-Apr-41, Injured in Bauchlandung due to Luftkampf with Hurricanes., , X.Fl.Korps/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, V, p.374; Prien/Rodeike/Stemmer, Stab & I./JG 27, p.540; Wübbe, H.J. Marseille, p.136 photo, , Raum Tobruk, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, , MARSEILLE, Ofhr. Hans-Joachim, , , 3., JG 27, gelbe, 6 +, , , 28-Apr-41, Claimed his 9th Abschusses, a Blenheim. His 2nd in NA., , Afrika, Wübbe, Marseille, p.138-39, , nordwestlich Tobruk auf See, -, F, , ,
Bf 109E-7, 1567, MARSEILLE, Ofhr. Hans-Joachim, , , 3., JG 27, , , , , 21-May-41, Luftkampf with enemy fighters. Bruchlandung behind own lines., , X.Fl.Korps/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, V, p.374; Prien/Rodeike/Stemmer, Stab & I./JG 27, p.540, , Raum Tobruk, 40%, F, , ,

coming from this thread here: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ight=Marseille

Personnaly I wrote "FUNNY ... " in my last post.

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Franck,

Thanks for posting this info. I wasn't commenting that you claimed this was Marseille, as you did not make that claim, but only cited an earlier source that suggested this. Thanks for posting this info, as it does indicate that reliable sources all have him with 1.(J)/LG2 during this period, and the a/c in question is clearly not a 1 Staffel a/c.

Regards,

Re: ID of Bf109 down on French Beach BoB?
 

Hello,

as for this list: The Funny thing is that JFV, Teil 4.I, page 401 IS NOT giving Marseille name for that loss! I wonder where Thenelm got this?

As for the unit, I found 4 or 5 (no time to check) victories when flying with 3./LG 2, in September...

But, don't worry, 29/10 he was already in JG 52 since end of September! OUF...