Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hi,
yesterday in my hometown Starnberg while doing some house building, some AC wreck parts have been discovered. I was visiting the site today,
for me it seems to be a P-51 wreck:
Packard Merlin engine and 3 browning 0,5 MG and Landing gear have been visible.

I aked them to clean a browning to get the Serial of one Browning: 1047698 (I'm almost sure with this number but the metall was already a bit rotten)
On a first look, i didn't find any matching MACR.

Anybody has Info about a missing P-51 in this area (Starnberg is about 15 Miles south of munich)

I'll attach some pictures later.

Greetings

Lino

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Attached some pictures:
engine
undercarriage
part mounted on engine with production and serial number

I was not able to find any numbers/serial of the engine, as there was not enough time.

Greetings

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hello
I didn’t found the exact number of your gun into the microfilm , however serials 1047696 1047694 belonged to the P-51D 44-15639 loss the 17/4/45
1st Lt Thacker Robert K.(POW)O-759113 55th FG 338th FS MACR 13919

1047693 & 1047697 was on 44-15672 loss 19/2/45 364th FG 385th FS
1st Lt McCubbin James L.(POW)O-708895
Around Varrel , MACR 12506
Regards
Phil

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Phil,

The loss of 44-15639 seems a bit (too) far from Munich: see http://www.station131.co.uk/55th/Pil...t%20L%20Lt.htm

But indeed, many MACRs give gun numbers, so that's a good way to find the Starnberg P-51!

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Thanks Phil and Leendert,
this AC wreck seems to be a mistery. As always, i can't get involved in any research case that could be solved in an easy way.


This AC doesn't seem to be one of our known crashes or missing AC's in our region. Another strange point: Only about 100 meters away have been many buildings already these days. Nobody out of my old friends from the city has memories about a AC crash in this area. But the AC was found in a depth only about 2-4 meters, so it is likely, that many parts have been visible after crash.

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

As the serial did not appear into the microfilm A1114 that may mean that no MACR was established, maybe that loss occurred after the occupation of the area.
If you have the serials of the other guns or the Serial of the engine....
Phil

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hi Phil,
yes, it would be great having the other serials. 2 Brownings have been salvaged yesterday, today until now another 3. I was able to examine only one, as there was a work break for the official ammunition salvage team and i was allowed to examine some of the parts in a "safe" environment.

On the engine i couldn't find any serial or date plate. (But this was almost impossible without a good cleaning of the engine)

Regards

Lino

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hi Phil,
can you please look also for a SN 1047898
Thanks a lot

Lino

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hi, i have a new trace: The accident may have happened shortly after war.
Does anybody know, if in the post war Accident reports are also Gun Serials included?

Greetings

Lino

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

1047898 is not in the microfilm and no nearby numbers.sorry!
Regards
Phil

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

I have only found a P-47 loss at Starnberg the 19/05/1945 #42-28428 371st FG 406th FS pilot Neale Denison

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Thanks a lot for help Phil,
i didn't sleep a lot this night and checked some AC accident reports. Finally i found some interesting Post war losses in our area. I'm focused now on one particular crash and ordered the report to check the serials.
I'll kepp you informed about news, if i can confirm my assumption.

Greetings from Starnberg

Lino

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hello,
If the motor is a Merlin then it cannot be a P47.

I found two possible Post WW2 Mustangs in the AAIR site.

P-51D-20-NA : 1946/09/23, serial number 44-63221 of the 58th FS, 33rd FG. pilot Jan W. Barmore. Place, 10 miles South of Munich.
Could be that the reference to 10 miles is a estimate.
And
P-51D-20-(NA) : 1945/05/08, serial number 44-73177 of the 353rd FS, 354th FG. pilot Donald D. Artz. Place, Munich/R-82.

all the best in your search
Alex

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

44-63221 was originally Myron Becraft's G4-S "Moose" and the incident on 23 September 1946 was a mid-air collision. Not sure of the outcome but a possibility.

44-73177 was a landing accident at R-82 so should not be a candidate.

Peter

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hello Peter,


Thanks for the clarification I did wonder re the Airfield number.

The following has been sent to me in an email.


http://www.merkur-online.de/lokales/...e-1181886.html

So far no mention of pilot's remains so I hope that the pilot escaped the crash.

All for now
Alex

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Lino
Falls du irgendwie "praktische" Hilfe brauchst, lass es mich wissen.
Ich wohne nur ca. 20 km weiter östlich von dir , zwischen Egling und Sauerlach.

Gruß
Hans

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hi Peter, Alex and Hans,
thanks a lot for help.
The given loacation for the 44-63221 is quite OK, he is one of my "favorites".I also found some other possibilities like 44-72063 (Neubiberg/ 16mi SW), so i hope to get confirmation soon when getting the accident reports.

Greetings

Lino

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hi,
finally i found my favorite AC:
44-72763 60FS crashed after collision the 14.July 1947 in
"Sternberg" .
P-51D, 60FS 33FG, Briggs, Richard
The Pilot bailed out, the other aircraft involved in the collision crashed some miles from Starnberg.

So i'm almost sure, this is "my" AC.

Thanks to everybody for help.

Lino

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ck_found_.html

http://www.tz-online.de/aktuelles/mu...z-1181832.html

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hello Lino,
for USAAF serial number 44-72763, the construction number should be I think, 122-39222.
Good luck
Alex

Re: Possible P-51 Wreck discovered in Starnberg/Bavaria
 

Hi there,

I was just looking for some photos of the reactivated 33rd FG and its P-51s in post-war Germany, but to no avail. Seems those are quite rare. Can anyone please suggest a source or has photos of those Mustangs at hand?

Kind regards,
Christian