Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

While going through Tony Wood's Eastern front LW victory claims, I came accross some strange claims. I'd like to post them for comments.

May 31,1944 2/(F)100 Obfhr. Rumpf Thunderbolt 30km S. Polomoye 8300m

July15,1944 2./NAGr 2 Ltn Brutt Mustang 50 82 @ 3600m
Juky 15,1944 2/NAGr 2 Ltn Kruse P-2 (Pe-2?) 50 82 @ 3000m
July 15,1944 2/NAGr 2 Fw. Strobach P-51 Mustang 50 17 @ 3000m
July 15,1944 2/NAGr 2 Uffz Eisenhardt P-51 Mustang 50 61 @ 4000m


Sept. 25,1944 3./SG 121(?) Gefr. Naumann Bf-109 38 846 @3500m

Nov 7,1944 1./NAGr 12 (Eins) Lt Haus & Uffz Voss Wellington
NW Butnir 2000M (WSW Sarajevo)

Hopefully someone will know more about these victory claims.

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

July 15 sounds like Ploesti, September 25 sounds like a Bulgarian 109, Wellington might be 205 Group, seems a bit late for Wellingtons though, maybe an SOE craft, or something from the Balkan Air Force, 37 Squadron perhaps.

Have a look here:

http://natureonline.com/37/42-op31.html

Wellingtons of 37 Squadron went to Sarajevo on 7 November 1944, (along with 77 other aircraft) losing 1 in Wellington action and another on return.

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

I don't think the July 15th claims are from Ploesti. I do appreciate the information on the 37sq Wellington.

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

"SG 121" could be SG 151, which had various elements in the Balkans in 1944. Some of them had Fw 190 F-models, so they had air-to-air potential.

NAG 12 had a whole variety of Bf 109 G sub-types, so again they could fight if required.

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

As I recall Tony said a lot of these claims were transcribed from handwritten documents, likely leading to some error in trying to interpret these things.

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

NAGr. 2 and NAGr. 12 had a number of claims, since they flew Gustavs, as Nick pointed out. I have a number of Nahaufklärung claims in details from Freiburg (including Ltn. Brütt's, which was not in the Ploiesti area, of course, since they stationed far from it).

Need to check the PlQ but 25 Sept sounds rather a Rumanian Messerschmitt (over Transylvania).

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

On 25 Sept. 1944, only one ARR Bf 109G-6 was lost, to the rear gunner of a Ju 188 near Kolozsvar/Cluj/Klausenburg, Transylvania.

By the way, can anyone confirm the loss of this Luftwaffe long-range recce aircraft?

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

25 Sept. 1944 :
Some Hs 129 tasked to dive-bomb the village of Tureni 8 km from Turda and their escort of three romanian fighters were intercepted by four german Bf 109, a romanian aircraft (type not specified) was holed, it exploded after the pilot has landed and vacated it.
from the french
AIRMAG N°01 : LES BF-109 ROUMAINS - Page 61

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

That particular emergency landed aircraft was a Hs 129, not a Bf 109, claimed by II./JG 52.

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

I know, that cpt. Lucian Toma was lost on that day. Rumanian sources says he was shot down by the gunners of a Ju 188, attacked succesfully by him, but it is only the Rumanian version, the story has always two sides.

Incidentally I just pointed out, that it was a claim rather against a Rumanian, than a Bulgarian aircraft. (and of course it is just a claim, which not always match with a real loss in the other side - need to check the remained sources from both sides carefully).
Kolozsvár and Szamosfalva areas are in PlQ. 37... grids but since it was a dogfight in quite high altitude, maybe the claim was not exactly in the same area, where the aircraft of Toma actually crashed.

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

Thanks to all the contibutors! A few thoughts...

P-47D Thunderbolts were Lend Leased to Russia, starting in 1944 with some 194 examples shipped through Iran. This claim is just possible though I'd like to know where Polomoye actually is? A Google search was inconclusive

The Mustang claims are a mystery...And three claims! As far as I know the VVS never used Mustangs...

I'd agree with Nick regarding SG-121 is probably SG-151

The NAGr12 claim is interesting because it lists two people, Ltn Haus and Uffz Voss.
Joint claim? Wellingtons flew at night in the MAAF so was this a night fighter sortie using NAGr12 Bf-109s?Dawn sortie catch a late returning Wellington?

I guess we'll never know

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

This claim is just possible though I'd like to know where Polomoye actually is? A Google search was inconclusive

It could be Polonnoje, in Ukraine. It is located at 50.07N 27.30E.

Regards

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

That sortie took off at 1401 hours according to the link.

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

Kaki3152,

The Soviets received 10 Mustang 1s from the RAF in late 41 and early 42. They also acquired 14 later model P-51 from examples left behind by the USAAF after shuttle missions. I don't believe any combat missions were flown.
The P-47s only flew a handful of escort missions in the north with the 15 ORAP. I haven't read anything that suggests they engaged in air combat.

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

2./NAGr 2 was based in / near Lemberg = Lvov on that day*, so they definitely did not fight in Rumania. I propose a misidentification by all these pilots, maybe it was all in one common sortie? I.e. Yak-9's don't look so much different from Mustangs: bubbletop canopy and belly-cooler.

* : See here: http://ww2.dk/air/recon/nagr2.htm

Re: Tony Wood's Luftwaffe Eastern front list oddities
 

Mustangs were used to very little extent. 4 of them were received on Land lease programm. They were "Mustang I" handled by British authorities. Their numbers are: AG 348, 352, 353, 354. One went on testing to NII VVS and three others were sent to 3 VA. Combat experience was the only mission flown on September 13, 1942, escort for Sturmovicks, no contact with enemy.