Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

I have photos of Hungarian Fiat CR.32 from 1./1. Squadron done probably in March 1939 or so? There is a pilot with a dog both siting in front of fighter.

I wonder the name of this pilot, but if the name of his dog will be know to it coulbe be very nice?

Regards,
mirekw

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

Mirek,

I wonder if this picture and link points to the pilot and dog? See http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/hungary_szobranczy.htm

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

Thanks, I have such idea, that it was him with his dog, he/she is similar and was called "Richie", so both they fit, but I am not sure.

Regards,
mirekw

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

V.108 was flown most probably by Aladár Negro.

As for the photos - as I told you years ago, if you have a copy (repro) of a picture, then it is not yours. I do have a genuine, unpublished photo of Negro (later Szobránczy) from March, 1939 with his dog. But I only have such materials, because I spent decades with extensive research in this topic, I knew veterans, who involved in this conflict and also many families of already deceased ones. And I got those photos from them. (And most of the "very well known by everyone" information comes from my research in this topic).

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

Hi
Thanks for the information, I think it was rather Aladár Negro, and I had written under this photo. But it was my speculation, this time the good one. Anyway, thanks for this late tip, :-)

BTW, my text about "Two days air war between Hungarians and Slovaks in III 1939", has been edited about one month ago in Poland in Polish magazine Aero 2(29)/2011, p. 14-25.

OK, then so, probably I have such copy photo, which I have bought about 10 or more years ago from Hungary. What is a problem? You want to say me that I do not have a photo or you ban me publish it? It is funy.

This photos and other ones do not come from your collection too. There are good reproduced, not orginal, but useful for editorial printing.

I know many photos, which were copied in several prints and distributed among people, also next copies of this printings. Only the author of photo (who did it) have full copy rights but also in limited period. Of course it is well to know, who did this photo and when (exacte date), and where (exacte place).

Copyrights for photos are for max 70 years long, this is not for 100 or more years.

First time, when I did this subject (in 2002 in Poland) I do not know your name and your materials too (you mostly writing in Hungarian, which I do not know). Second time, when I did this story 9 years later (improved, corrected, ect.), I know you, but sorry and frankly, your material have not been the main source for writig it too, despite I have your book about Hungarian's aces from 2006 and mentioned it in my sources too.

BTW
First about this subject in English, If I am right, have written Peter Mujzer in 1994. So he was not you of course. His story was very nice and good as on 1994, he is mentioned among other sources in my material and the end of it.

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

I said unpublished photo. I have an unpublished, formerly unknown photo of Szobránczy. Actually it is me, who can recognize him and most of the other involving pilots. These photos surfacing without any captions and notes, so identify these people needs some real knowledge related to this topic.

As for your picture (which I guess, was bought from László Jávor) is a repro. Using it as own is a copyright infringement towards the owner of the genuine negative (or if it lacks, the genuine positive). I don't own that photo and honestly, I do not interested in who uses what pictures in which way, until they claim them as theirs, although they even don't know the original source. Not necessary to explain these things, it is breach of copyrights.

As for the first publication in this topic from Hungarian side in English, it was written by Gyula (Julius) Gaál in 1972 and also in 1977 in Aero Album and Air Combat issues. (IIRC from Slovak side it was Rajninec in 1971 in Air Enthusiast.) I know all of the sources, used by former, old publications, these were already printed and published materials with additionally 1-2 reminiscences. (Also known ones.)

I do not publish copy-paste materials. In this case, as always in my research, I just went through every available primary (archival) materials (which no other researchers did) and also chased all around the world of the involving aircrews (pilots, observers, gunners) and their families. And not just the fighters and bombers, but also the reconnaissance crews, since most of the sorties were flown by them. And I went not just after them, I even managed to found the families of two Hungarian soldiers, who were killed by Slovak air raids. And it was also me, who localized and found the grave of Szobránczy and who sometimes visit it (he died in the US but his ashes were transported back to Hungary but since his family died out and the gravestone was changed, his name does not appear there).

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

OK, I think it is (there are, I have all 3 or 4) unpublished photos, I have not seen them earlier in any Hungarian and other publiactions.


Yes it is very good repro, but not this one from him, other ones yes. I had got other photos from him about this air war too, as some other materials. Javor is very helpful in such services indeed, we know each other many years.

And this is good attitiude. When you writing a book or other strong material (something more then > 80.000 signes) such details are very nice, ana it is good to read them too.
There are plenty materials, when authors done such simple and easy work - copy and past. I call them "rewriters" and do not like this too. There are plenty such stories (even books), which many times create more mithology then true. But it is so, and you (or me) can not change it. Simplicity is worldwide.

Probably, when you at last will edit your book about this subject, you will write more deeply about this war too. But your planed book has not been yet printed? It is very interesting project, but from publisher point of view, there are too few facts about "Me 109s and black crosses" for readers. They love all about subjects around "Me 109s/ P-51s, Spitfire ect." in Europe. I hope that it will be anyway overcame and all the best to finish this book, which is needed too, :-)

Regards,
mirekw

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

Better late then never, there is samples of the first pages of the story including two photos (one with CR.32), I wonder if Csaba have the same photo?

Regards,
mirekw

http://kagero.pl/index.php?option=co...=105&Itemid=29

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

That's a nice photo I haven't seen before.

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

The whole story had all 21 b&w photos, which 6 presented Czech/Slovak planes including Avia B.534 too, next 15 presented Hungarian side: Ju 86, He 70, WM-21, captured one Slovak Avia B.534 (two photos), most photos are unknow for Polish readers. I think, that about at least 1/2 photos are also unknow for Slovak or Hungarians readers too.
I have not yet seen them in their publication.

This is not such popular subject, but it is also interesting issues, so it was printed in Poland.

It is second story, which I have edited in Poland in 2011 concerning Hungarian military history 1939-1941. This year, a litttle bit earlier, I have done similar size story about "Hungarian I Fast Corps in Barbarossa in 1941". It was printed in Poligon no 2(25)/2011, p. 36-45, there are 13 b&w photos and 6 color drawings of: Toldi I, M37 Ansaldo, Hungarian Polish PF 508/III Łazik and 39M Csaba.

So, as for 2011, Hungarian military history is quite nice presented in Poland despite this is very marginal subjects, not yet any Me109, Tigers, Panthers and black crosses of any kind of size, :-)


Regards,
mirekw

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

The story"Węgierski I Korpus Szybki w operacji Barbarossa"
is:
http://www.magnum-x.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1481& catid=2&Itemid=13

Regards,
mirekw

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

Well, I work really a lot always and have no time to visit forums generally, but here I was mentioned.
I did not said, that this photo is mine (since I did not know, what is the actual photo - I said, that I have an unpublished photo about Szobránczy, which is really unknown and unpublished). I just said, that if you have a repro, then the publishing rights are not yours (which is not my opinion, but the copyright law), and I don't think, that this photo is unpublished, since it is a repro.

As for this particular photo, it is known and it was published earlier, of course. Here is even an English, not a Hungarian language publication, from 1995 (György Punka's Messer, page 7):
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=54arno&s=7

It is great, that foreigners are interested in the Hungarian history. However, you really think, that without knowing the original primary and secondary sources and the Hungarian publications related to an actual topic, you have a lot of unpublished Hungarian materials?

To me, this topic is closed.

Re: Hungarian's Pilot of CR.32 V.108 in March 1939?
 

Csaba you have greate sense of humor, if you belive, that photos from very good book about Hungarian's Me 109s are sources for any kind of such materials, which are just edited.
I have this book and the quality of printed photos are, as you and me well know, out of editorial qulaity.

Second, this photo does not has any caption from which collection coming from too. So I can say, that I had "supported" author with my reproduction, which is better. It is a joke, :-),

If concerning materials about Hungarian history, I think, that I have several hundreds or more useful photos combats planes, much more than I need, other phots I have too, plenty more.

BTW copyrigths law could have only author of done photos, there are not for eterninty but for limited period, in Russia it is about 5 years or so.
International rights are for 70 years if you have negatives and it is sure that you are the author of it. Or you have obtained these rights from the author.

There are many reproduction which are sold or bought for tens years, and it is difficoult to say about the prime source of them. The case of Ebay makes this more complicate, if you are buying such things and leater editing and you do not know the authors name too.

Regards.
mirekw

PS.
I think you are right, topic is closed 2 months ago or more, I have opened it to have only name of pilot in front of this plane, and I had got it.