Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Dear researchers,

On 3rd July 1941 a Bf.109F-2 of I/JG1 was damaged for 15% while taxiing on Bergen (also filed as Bergen am See in German records) airfield, Holland.
I've two possible Werknr's of this aircraft: 12854 and 8254 which are very similar to each other. Unfortunately I lost my references to the primary sources of these two Werknr's.

Perhaps somebody can shed a light on this?

Thanks in advance,

Hans Nauta

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Hans:

It is listed as 8254 in the QMGen records.

John

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Hello John,

Thanks for your quick reply. I´ll delete 12854 from my files, apperently being the wrong Werknr.

Kind regards,
Hans Nauta

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Hello


a bit strange I hv 8250/51/52/53/56/58 but no 8254, but a 12854 from JG1 Bruchlanded in Wangerooge 190442 20 %, nd def. written-off with JG51 in Dugino 070942


reg.

rt

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Hi RT,

Thanks for your reaction. From your info it appears that 12854 was a valid Werknr, however not related to the taxiing incident at Bergen.

Regarding 8254, perhaps Jim P. can help us out as he has an extensive database of the Bf.109.

Regards,
Hans Nauta

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Hans:

You are correct: while 12854 was in an accident while with JG 1, it is not the taxing accident you referenced on the date and pilot with 8254. Two different incidents and dates.

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Hi All

From where does WNr 8254 come from? According to BOTH Eric Mombeek and Jochen Prien's books on the subject the aeroplane damaged at Bergen on July 3rd 1941 was WNr 5712 !

The same day the Gr.Kom. Erich Mix also bellylanded his WNr 7059, but that is not the accident referred to

Cheers

Stig Jarlevik

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

References: Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.5;

Yes Prien and Mombeek do say that and I am not sure why. I have 5712 as lost on the same date with 1./JG 3 on the Eastern Front at Luzk, 40% on a crash landing due to pilot error.

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

I guess the Prien books to the JG 1 based on first researches because in his book "Jagdfliegerverbände ...", vol. 5, p.38, he mentioned the W.Nr. 8254 for the accident in Bergen too.

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Yes, you are correct. Just illustrates that research is always on-going! ;)

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Really funny...

Never checked THAT book, just the JG 1 histories. Anyone knows any history of WNr 5712, and why it figured in this accident report and suddenly got switched with 8254??

Cheers
Stig

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

5712

Is also a valid number one time is a F1 with III JG3 in sept 41 written off, but also a F4 with Erggr. JG2 in oct 41

5709 F2
5710 F1
5711 F1
5713 F2 + F1
5714 F1
5715 F1

It seems that all these birds are F1...first entry on june 41

reg

RT

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

Hello Stig,

Here's what I have about WNr.5712 - Bf109 F-1 ND+IA

03.07.41 1./JG3 N.N., Bedienungsfehler - Bruchlandung, Fl.Pl. Luzk - 45% (F-2)
15.09.41 III./JG3 N.N., Rollschaden, Fl.Pl. Beresowka - 60% (F-2)
05.10.41 2.Erg./JG2 N.N., bei Landung ausgebrochen, Fl.Pl. Cazeaux - 30%

As you see, this plane was also involved into an accident on the same day as WNr.8254, so I guess it was just a simple mixup.

Best regards,
Tomislav

Re: Bf.109 Werknr 12854 or 8254
 

On 307


5712 was involved with 1/jg1
5472 with I/jg3

5712 involved in 60 % accident would norm. no more exist....


rt