Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Hello ,

I'll need some help from nice souls here . I would like to trace original copies and translation of the following KE reports related to these Lancasters lost in Normandy :

- KE 8268 , Lancaster ED808 , 622 Sq , lost 10/11 April 1944 .

- KE 9167 , Lancaster EE186 , 61 Sq , lost 4/5 July 1944 .

Many thanks ,

Zorglub

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Hello,
what I have for,
Lancaster ED808, 10/11 April 44 , KE8268
is quote
"10 Apl 44 0315 Lancaster GI emblemGI ED808 5Km NE of St. Antifer 28Km N of Le Havre. KE8228".
See that KE is 8228 as against your given 8268. Which is a typo wonder ?
What I have for,
Lancaster EE186, 4/5 July 44, KE9167
is quote
"5 Jul 44 0200 Lancaster markings QU insignia D EE186 2Km N of HARQUENCY 6Km E of Les Andelys KE9167".

Hope this is a help.
Alex

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Interesting! Where do you find these KE reports?

Stein

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Thanks Alex !

However are you aware of a complete report for each loss ? Sometimes there are ref. of radio equipment , guns , engines ... especially for EE186 which crash-landed , so was complete .

Zorglub

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Zorglub,

what your talking about (radio equipment, guns, etc.) thats part of the "Bergungsbericht" - Salvage report -, KE, KU, ME, J reports - just about a enemy plane, where, when , crew, etc.

I had some original J-reports, and there you can´t find details like serial no. of guns, etc. you find markings on the plane (serial, Nicknames, etc.) fate of the crew, and sometimes which unit will salvage the wreck.

Maybe I´m wrong and others had furhter informations.

khorat

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Hi Khorat ,

In some USAAF MACRs , you can find the German report related to the loss . Some are quite complete and accurate with engine serial ( even on blades ! ), radio equipment description and guns serial , also fate of the crew .
That's what I'm looking for regarding RAF losses but to this day I haven't found the good source ! If a good soul in Germany could help ?
I have a similar request for the following :

- ref. AV 706 44 , Spitfire lost at Mesnil-Durdent , 6 January 1944 12h15.

Thanks;

Zorglub

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Hi Zorglub,

you talking about the "Bergungsberichte" - Salvage Reports, so I know only few of them in Bundesarchiv in Freiburg availiable, the most are lost.
For example, the "Bergungsberichte" of the Salavage commando of the Airport Mannheim-Sandhofen - when the war ends a member of the commando bring them at home and in the years after the war he use the reports to salvage the planes - scrap brings a lot of money this time. After he finished his job - the reports (5 A-4 folders) find there way into a oven in wintertime........
So good luck with your search.

khorat

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Zorglub -

The story of these so-called "Luftgau" crashed enemy aircraft reports that use prefixes like KE, KU, ME, J, etc. has been covered in detail a number of times here on the 12 O'Clock High Forum. If you will use the site's SEARCH function you should find all the information you want, especially the fact that the thousands of reports on RAF aircraft are still in the hands of the British Ministry of Defence and still unavailable to researchers.

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Thanks Larry

What a shame ! Why this policy from the MoD ? Is that as sensitive as the MREU reports about remains found at crash-sites ?
Obviously this is a great source for searchers .

Zorglub

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Hi Zorglub,

to amplify what Larry has already said, the current MoD classification policy regarding the captured reports is the same as that for the still-classified MRES Casualty Investigation files simply because, according to the RAF AHB, the reports are all filed with the relevant MRES files.

It seems that, unlike what happened in the US, the original German folders were broken up and the contents put on the Casualty Investigation files. This, of course, begs the question - what happened to captured reports that couldn't be matched to an Investigation file? According to the AHB they were destroyed...

Anyway, you could try writing to the British RAF Air Historical Branch requesting a copy of the reports you seek (be sure to quote the date, sqdn and aircraft type and serial associated with the reports).

Cheers

Rod M

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

Zorglub,

Possible candidates for 6-1-1944:
315 Sqn lost Mk.V serial P8744 near Landiviseau, time given as 1405 hrs.
91 Sqn lost Mk.XII serial EN223 S of Valéry.

Henk.

Re: Allied crashes and German KE reports
 

If crew contained RCAF member then if KIA the details of loss are in their personel file. These records are held at Canadian national archives in Ottawa. You can search online and request copy of file. Canada so long as individual dead>.20 years no prob to get file.

I hve records for crews who flew in Dambuster raid ( RCAF ) members. no dificulty at al to getl.
Interestingly ,page 11 of one report was missing and Ottawa said contact RAF. All it was cemetery map of graves. When I called Insworth, they were extremely pissed I had file,saying it was illegal, would be upsetting if info was given out. I explained all I wanted was was hand drawn map of site graves in cemetery missing from Canadian record!!!!! which are legally available Woman was less than happy to say least.!!!.
Really is weird way of thinking.
In another case ,information was in a file at Kew from war crimes trial that was available. Yet Insworth refused me getting copy again saying was too sensitive. The information wasnt at all sensitive in fact.

On similar point I tried to get my uncle's records from RN , my mother was interested in finding out about his war record. They refused saying she wasnt next of kin. since he was married (wife also deceased now!) My cousin wasnt traceable at time.

Grman records are hard to get but have had sucess at going to relevent office with written questions and getting answers to them.