SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

I found an information that SB2C pilots scored 44 victories.
The most succesfull pilot should be Lt. Robert "Zekie" Parker, later killed by a kamikaze attack.
Does anybody know Parker's total score and names and scores of other succesfull pilots?
Do exist the photos or 3D drawing of Parker's Helldiver?

Regards

Ondrej

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

...I'm interested in the score of the highest-scoring Helldiver pilot, too.

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

No precise idea, but you can find a daily chronology of USN claims in WWII there:
http://www.ww2f.com/threads/today-in...r.4493/page-16

For example, on 24 June 1944 "a VB-2 SB2C is credited with 1 B5N" among other kills.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Hello,

I think Barrett Tillman's book
https://www.amazon.de/Helldiver-Airc...elldiver+units
reveals that Parker scored 3 kills.

This website indicates a total for the Helldiver of 44.
http://acepilots.com/planes/helldiver.html
Were all of these kills scored in the PTO ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

...(and not in the CBI) ?

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

There is an Osprey publication "Helldivers of World War 2" with just a few more names.


Lt Cdr Arthur L. Downing (VB-14, USS Wasp) with 1.5 victories and gunners ARM3/c E.J. Elias (also VB-14) and ARM3/c S.E. Wallace (VB-17) with each 2 confirmed.



There is a squadron breakdown of the 44 claims.


VB-18 (12), VB-19 (11), VB-14 (4.5), VB-17 (4), VB-2 (3), VB-8 (3), VB-15 (2), VB-11 (2), VB-7 (1), VB-80 (1) and VB-13 (0.5).



Regards,


Leendert

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Credits to SB2C drivers and backseaters:

LT Robert Brownwell Parker // VB-19 // 3.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LT Allen Lee Lewis // VB-14 // 2.166 // 0.000 // 1.666
LTJG Samuel Thomas Elway // VB-14 // 2.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG Melvin Antoni Mor // VB-14 // 2.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG R E Lee Duncan Jr // VB-19 // 1.500 // 0.000 // 0.000
LCDR Arthur Latimer Downing // VB-14 // 1.166 // 0.000 // 0.166
LTJG William Peter Colleran // VB-7 // 1.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
LTJG Seaman Grubin // VB-14 // 1.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
LTJG Charles Richard Draper // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
LTJG Benjamin Franklin Emge Jr // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
LTJG M H Richey // VB-2 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG John Hanley Weber // VB-8 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG Jack Bion Linn // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG George Glumac // VB-19 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG Franklin Eugene Schumacher // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG Daniel Wirt Baker // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG D W Logan // VB-11 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG Clifford Jordan // VB-15 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG Charles Forrest Fisher // VB-19 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG Billie Burke Duncan // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LT Robert Dean Niemeyer // VB-19 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LT Elmer Clarence Namoski // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LT Edward Allen Heflin // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ENS William Hugh Harris Jr // VB-17 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ENS William Harrison Bingham // VB-14 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ENS Richard Buckner Blaydes // VB-2 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ENS Edward Emerson Hendrickson // VB-80 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ENS H E Tull // VB-2 // 0.500 // 0.000 // 0.000
ENS Cornelius Joseph Haggerty // VB-14 // 0.500 // 0.000 // 0.000
CDR Richard Lucius Kibbe // VB-13 // 0.500 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG P Garbler // VB-2 // 0.333 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG J F Schaber // VB-2 // 0.333 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG D T Galvin // VB-2 // 0.333 // 0.000 // 0.000
ENS Robert Ohm // VB-14 // 0.166 // 0.000 // 0.166
ENS Leroy Lester Laz // VB-14 // 0.166 // 0.000 // 0.166
ENS Judson Harvey Doane // VB-14 // 0.166 // 0.000 // 0.166
ENS David Courtland Hunicke // VB-14 // 0.166 // 0.000 // 0.166
LTJG Thompson Shea // VB-8 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
LT William Edward McBride // VB-19 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
LTJG Cornelius Joseph Haggerty // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 2.000
LTJG James Eldon Starkel // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.500
LTJG L T Naroness // VB-8 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
LTJG J R Amussen // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
LTJG Harwood Stevens Sharp // VB-8 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
LTJG F L Braunoff // VB-8 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
LTJG A B Fite // VB-11 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
LT Leslie James Ward // VB-8 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ENS V E Flame // VB-8 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ENS Dale W Thompson // VB-17 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ENS Unsworth // VB-2 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
LTJG Henry Evans Smith // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.500
LTJG F B Mathews // VB-15 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.500
LT John Magee // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.500
ENS James Otis McIntire // VB-8 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.500
ARM3c Stanley E Wallace // VB-17 // 2.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM3c Peter J Trombina // VB-15 // 1.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
RadioElec Raymond B Bailey // VB-8 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM3c Ernest Joseph Elias // VB-19 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM2c Lenny Bay // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM2c Joseph Serensis Jr // VB-14 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM2c James Francis Burns // VB-19 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM1c William O Haynes Jr // VB-17 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM1c M A Patillo // VB-2 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM1c John Abbott Puryear // VB-14 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
AMM3c W T Farrow // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
AMM3c C F Curries // VB-8 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
AMM3c C E Cosby // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
AMM1c J G Pope // VB-18 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM3c John Allston Hendrick // VB-19 // 0.500 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM3c E T McElroy // VB-2 // 0.500 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM2c E D Kufeldt // VB-11 // 0.500 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM2c A F Pierce // VB-11 // 0.500 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM3c W F Hayatake // VB-2 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
ARM3c R J Brammer // VB-3 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
ARM3c Albert L McPhee // VB-17 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
ARM2c William J Campbell // VB-17 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
ARM2c O'Neill // VB-2 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
ARM2c James W O'Brien // VB-8 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
ARM1c Wilks // VB-2 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
ARM1c James R Langiotti // VB-8 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
ARM1c H E Borja // VB-13 // 0.000 // 1.000 // 0.000
ARM3c W K Kirts // VB-13 // 0.000 // 0.500 // 0.000
ARM3c L B Widing // VB-13 // 0.000 // 0.500 // 0.000
ARM3c C S Christiansen // VB-13 // 0.000 // 0.500 // 0.000
ARM2c W J Fike // VB-13 // 0.000 // 0.500 // 0.000
ARM2c W D Crook // VB-12 // 0.000 // 0.500 // 0.000
ARM1c W F Hale // VB-12 // 0.000 // 0.500 // 0.000
ARM3c Walter F Kelly // VB-15 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ARM3c Rober I Lemieux // VB-15 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ARM3c Maurice E Cahill // VB-17 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ARM3c J J Betsekas // VB-11 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ARM3c Edwin W DeGraff // VB-17 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ARM3c Charles Frederick Studley // VB-9 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ARM2c George John // VB-15 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
ARM2c Earl William Ward // VB-9 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
AOM3c D C Killary // VB-2 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 1.000
RadioElec Robert N Varonette // VB-8 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.500
ARM2c Robert Lawrence Dorrington // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.500
ARM2c Robert Dean Borrison // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.500
ARM2c John Abbott Puryear // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.500
ACRM Robert Cassort Runyon // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.500
ARM3c G Bottrell // VB-2 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.333
ARM2c A E Albertalli // VB-2 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.333
ARM1c M A Pattillo // VB-2 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.333
ARM3c Alvin Matthew Pratt // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.200
ARM2c Robert Dale McClintock // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.200
ARM2c Nathan Alonzo Lathe Jr // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.200
ARM2c George Gorham Wahrer // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.200
ARM2c Daniel Seymour DeVoto // VB-14 // 0.000 // 0.000 // 0.200

Totals 52.995 // 17.00 // 32.495; Pilots // 35.995 // 4.000 // 18.996; Gunners // 17.000 // 13.000 // 13.499
These are drawn from the research of Frank Olynyk (thanks, Frank!). The BuAer combat statistics cites a total of 43, but does not address probables or damaged.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Good afternoon Leendert,

that's interesting.
Can you tell me who was the gunner of Robert Parker ?

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Taking the figure of 44 claims produces a victory ratio for the SB2C in air-to-air encounters of about 3:1.

Incidentally, on going through all the action reports I came up with a total of 43.5, but as the aircraft was primarily a bomber I don't think that the precise figure is all that important.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Good evening twocee,

yes, but it's interesting nonetheless.
Do you know the name of the gunner of Robert Parker ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Parker's rearseatman was ARM2c Reynold D. Ross.

Unfortunately, Parker was killed when Lexington was hit by a kamikaze on 5th November.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Thanks for the gunner's name.
Yes, it's a pity that Parker was killed by a kamikaze attack.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Was a little surprised there was no existing FindAGrave memorial for Lt Parker, so one was created here:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...ownwell-parker

His rear seat Radio/Gunner is remembered here:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...old-doran-ross

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Good moring Scott,

thanks for the links.
Aside from scoring kills in the Helldiver, who do you think is the most notable pilot of that aircraft type ?

Have a nice Tuesday,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

I can only document Parker's gunner as being Ross for his first claim. His gunner is not mentioned in the ACA report for his 2nd and 3rd claims. It is highly likely that it was Ross, but not proven.

With regard to notable Helldiver pilots, I am prejudiced, but I think of William Hugh Harris, Jr. One claim in the SB2C-1 in 1943 with VB-17, and 4 more in the Corsair with VBF-83 off the Essex in 1945. Unfortunately KIA on Aug 10, 1945 when the 1000 pound bomb he was carrying exploded prematurely while en route to the target.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

There were many notable Helldiver pilots, such as Christofferson in VB17, Lewis and Downing in VB14, or Carmody in VB8, all great pilots and strike leaders. As I say again, the Helldiver was a bomber, and so whether they shot down any enemy aircraft was of little relevance.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Good morning Frank & George,

is it possible to determine which Helldiver pilot sunk the most tonnage or is it impossible because sinking ships with a dive bomber is always teamwork ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Yes, I think it would be impossible to establish which pilot sank most tonnage because, as you say, the great majority of shipping attacks were by combined VB/VT strike groups. Also bear in mind that most VT attacks on shipping used bombs rather than torpedoes, so both VB and VT would be dropping bombs on the same ships.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Hello twocee,

is it known who flew the most combat missions in the Helldiver ?

Kind regards,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

No idea, I'm afraid.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Good morning twocee,

the main reason why aces usually overshadow bomber pilots is that the former's successes can be expressed in numbers.
Possible methods of assessing a bomber pilot's achievements are comparing number of missions flown or tonnage sunk. Hans-Georg Bättcher and Werner Baumbach are the top German bomber pilots by these criteria, respectively.
I wonder if it is possible to determine the top Allied bomber pilots...

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Were all SB2C aerial victories scored in the PTO (and not CBI) ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Dear R Leonard,

who was the gunner of Allen Lee Lewis ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

The claim was shared among six Helldivers. The ACA report did not list the gunners. His other claims were while flying a Hellcat.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Good morning Frank,

hope you had a good Xmas.
Currently, I'm working through Barrett Tillman's "Helldiver Units of World War 2" and I was wondering which Helldiver team had the highest combined score. These are the candidates:
LT Robert Brownwell Parker // VB-19 // 3.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LT Allen Lee Lewis // VB-14 // 2.166 // 0.000 // 1.666
LTJG Samuel Thomas Elway // VB-14 // 2.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG Melvin Antoni Mor // VB-14 // 2.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG R E Lee Duncan Jr // VB-19 // 1.500 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG George Glumac // VB-19 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LTJG Charles Forrest Fisher // VB-19 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
LT Robert Dean Niemeyer // VB-19 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ENS William Hugh Harris Jr // VB-17 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000

ARM3c Stanley E Wallace // VB-17 // 2.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM3c Ernest Joseph Elias // VB-19 // 2.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM2c Joseph Serensis Jr // VB-14 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000
ARM1c John Abbott Puryear // VB-14 // 1.000 // 0.000 // 0.000


I would also like to include the Helldiver kills in this table:
https://www.warbirdsandairshows.com/...torieswwii.htm
Would you deem it justified to say that all Helldiver kills are PTO kills ?

I wish you a good Thursday,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

For Lewis, only 0.166/0/0.166 of his claims are on the Helldiver; the additional claims were while flying the Hellcat, although still with VB-14.

Elway's two victories are both on the Hellcat.

Same with Mor.

Duncan has one victory on the Helldiver; his gunner was Elias, who has 1.5.

Glumac has one; gunner unstated.

Fisher has one; his gunner was Hendrick with 0.5 shared with Elias.

Niemeyer has one; gunner unstated.

Harris has one in 1943; gunner unstated; plus he has 4 more on the F4U-1d with VBF-83 in 1945.

Wallace has 2, pilot unknown, in 1943.

Serensis has one; pilot unknown.

Puryear has one, pilot unknown, plus 2 shared damaged.

The 1943 claims are during a raid on Rabaul; all the other claims are in 1944, mostly in the Philippines.

The only land-based operator of the Helldiver was the French Navy in the 1950s in French Indo China, and it encountered no enemy aircraft.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Good morning dear Frank,

thanks for your very interesting post !
I deduct that a team score of 3 was only achieved by Parker/Ross and maybe by Harris (if his gunner was Wallace).

I never saw a CBI claim by a Navy aircraft type. May it be that Navy aircraft by definition scored no CBI kills and that all Navy kills against the Japanese are PTO kills ?

I wish you a good New Year's Eve,
with best greetings from Switzerland,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

This topic is very interesting indeed!

Edward L. Hsiao

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

The only CBI claims by Navy aircraft would include the carrier launched raids on Formosa and Hong Kong.

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

The only USN/USMC aircraft type claims outside the PTO that I know of are:

• 8xF6F in the MTO
• 2xF4F in the ETO
• 25xF4F in the MTO
• 5xPB4Y in the ETO
• 1xPBY in the ETO
• none in the CBI

Cheers,

Michael

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Parker's gunner according to this:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...ownwell-parker

was Reynold Doran Ross.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...old-doran-ross

Re: SB2C aerial victories - Pilot names?
 

Hello RSwank,

thank for the info which effectively rules out the possibility of any combined Helldiver pilot-gunner ace team.

Cheers,

Michael