First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

This question was answered for me in the forum 8-10 years ago, but in the course of upgrading my computer, the answer has been lost. I couldn't find anything in the search function. Thanks for any assistance.

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

As per Obermeier:
Mölders, Lützow, Oesau, Philipp, Ihlefeld, Ostermann, Graf, Dickfeld, Bär, Gollob
Don

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

100 victories:

1941 - Moelders (15.7), Luetzow (24.10), Oesau (26.10)

1942 - Zwernemann (25.1), Ihlefeld (22.4), Ostermann (12.5), Graf (14.5), Baer (19.5), Gollob (20.5), Philipp (6.6), Marseill (17.6), Clausen (22.7), Setz (24.7), Bauer (25.7), Beerenbrok (1.8), Hackl (3.8), Dickfeld (14.8), Braendle (23.8), Steinhoff (31.8), Muencheberg (5.9), Beisswenger (5.9), Wilcke (6.9), Schmidt (16.9), Mueller (19.9), Tonne (22.9), Reinert (3.10), Stotz (26.10), Rall (30.10), Geisshardt (10.11), Barkhorn (19.12)

1943- Grasser (2.1), Ubben (14.1), Wolf (25.1), Hahn (26.1), Lemke (16.3), Grislawski (27.4), Ettel (28.4), Dammers (5.5), Ehrler (6.6), Miethig (8.6), Nowotny (15.6), Weissenberger (4.7), Seiler (6.7), Wiese (17.7), Lucas (21.7), Bitsch (21.7), Hrabak (2.8), Korts (17.8), Krupinski (18.8), Kirschner (27.8), Ademeit (31.8), Schack (6.9), Kittel (14.9), Hartmann (20.9), Weber (10.10), Rudorffer (11.10), Hafner (15.10), Lang (2.11), Leie (6.11), Brendel (22.11)

1944 - Foennekold (12.1), Mayer (5.2), Batz (22.3), Sturm (23.3), Lipfert (11.4), Waldmann (12.4), Hoffmann (18.4), Tegtmeier (3.5), Schroer (24.5), Weiss (27.5), Wolfrum (1.6), Buehligen (7.6), Sachsenberg (8.6), Wurmheller (12.6), Freytag (13.6), Priller (15.6), Schuck (15.6), Lent (16.6), Trenkel (14.7), Norz (17.7), Josten (19.7), Borchers (24.7), Doerr (23.8), Schall (31.8), Eisenach (14.9), Wernicke (14.9), Duetmann (25.9), Thyben (30.9), Schnaufer (9.10), Birkner (14.10)

1945 - Dahl (28.2), Vechtel (25.3), Wernitz (26.3), Marquardt (14.4), Galland (16.4)

200 victories:

1942 - Graf (26.9)
1943 - Philipp (17.3), Nowotny (8.9), Rall (29.9), Barkhorn (30.11)
1944 - Hartmann (26.2), Baer (22.4), Weissenberger (25.7), Batz (17.8), Kittel (26.8), Hafner (16.10), Rudorffer (28.10), Ehrler (20.11)
1945 - Schuck (24.3), Lipfert (8.4)

300 victories:

1944 - Hartmann (24.8)
1945 - Barkhorn (4.1)

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

His Name is Schuck (Walter, 206 victories)

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Maxim1

There is an error in your list. Zwernemann gained his 100th on the 15/10/42 not 15/1/42.

For those wondering why the difference between the two lists, from what I can see Don's List (from Obermaier) was based on Luftwaffe communiques during the war while Maxim1 list is based on post war research (such as Dr Prien JFV series)

Removing the error of Zwernemann, the other two differences are for Philipp and Dickfeld.

In the case of Philipp, he was credited in communiques as being 4th to 100 on 30 March 1942. He then spent two months away from the front, which is not uncommon for pilots reaching significant milestones and made his next claim on 30th May 1942. Dr Prein's research credits Philipp's 100th on 6th June 1942.

The same occurred with Dickfeld, he recieved the Oakleaves for 101 claims on 19th May 1942 after claiming his 100th on the 18th May. As with Philipp, he soon after left the front, later to make his first claim on his return on the 5th August 1942. According to Prein, Dickfield gained his 100th on the 14th August 1942.

There are two possibilities for this difference.

Firstly it is difficult to find all the claims of pilots, some may be missing and with those that have been found the question is which were confirmed, rejected or were still awaiting further evidence/assessment? Are there more claims out there?

The second possibility (which I believe is more likely the case) is that they they were both victims of the slow OKL victory award system. Official confirmation took many months (even years) therefore when a communique reports that a pilot past 100 victories it is in reality 100 claims that have been accepted by their unit and forwarded to OKL for confirmation. It is possible at some point 3 of Philipp's earlier claims and 5 of Dickfeld's earlier claims were rejected and their scores adjusted accordingly at a later date.

I'll leave it to readers to make up their own mind as to which list should be followed. It is never easy to get a difinitive answer to a simple question when there is a lack of information.

Regards,

Craig...

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Obermeier's listing were based on various records, fact is there are not that accurate, many units/pilots included unconfirmed in there totals. Ubben, Geisshardt, Woidich, von Fassong all didn't reach 100. Dahne had at least 99 and possibly upto 128! Buhligen only had 99 until the end of 1944, Grasser's is difficult as his pre-JG51 claims details do not exist, and thus there is no proof they actually took place. Schuck had been told by Goring that 25 earlier unconfirmed claims of his had now, on this day been confirmed, this is the only premise for him having 206, in fact it would be a maximum of 181 and more likely actually 176, with Hackl we are told 192 + 40 unconfirmed, it's probably 192 with 40 unconfirmed!

Anyway, excluding unconfirmed, but including Spanish:-

Molders(107 total) 11/07/1941
Oesau(127) 12/08/1941
Lutzow(109) 12/10/1941
Ihlefeld(122) 20/04/1942
Ostermann(102) 12/05/1942
Graf(206) 14/05/1942
Bar(211) 05/06/1942
Gollob(146) 18/06/1942
Bauer(104) 25/07/1942
Setz(133) 26/07/1942
Beerenbrock(111) 01/08/1942
Philipp(193) 02/08/1942
Dickfeld(132) 14/08/1942 1022 hrs
Hackl(147+) 14/08/1942 1820 hrs
Brandle(170) 23/08/1942
Marseille(152) 01/09/1942
Muncheberg(135) 05/09/1942
Steinhoff(168) 08/09/1942
Schmidt(172) 09/09/1942
Wilcke(155) 10/09/1942
Crinius(114) 22/09/1942 0645 hrs
Tonne(120) 22/09/1942 1638 hrs
Reinert(168) 03/10/1942
Beisswenger(150) 06/10/1942
Zwernemann(123) 25/10/1942
Stotz(183) 26/10/1942
Muller(139) 27/11/1942
Barkhorn(300) 19/12/1942
Hahn(106) 09/02/1943
Lemke(131) 16/03/1943
Grislawski(127) 27/04/1943
Kirschner(181) 28/04/1943
Dammers(103) 05/05/1943
Ettel(121) 06/05/1943
Erhler(180+) 08/06/1943
Miethig(100) 10/06/1943
Nowotny(256) 15/06/1943
Seiler(109) 23/06/1943
Weissenberger(208) 04/07/1943
Bitsch(106) 20/07/1943
Lucas(105) 21/07/1943
Clausen(100) 17/08/1943
Hrabak(125) 02/08/1943
Krupinski(197) 18/08/1943
Korts(108) 19/08/1943
Kittel(265+) 14/09/1943
Schack(174) 18/09/1943
Hartmann(352) 20/09/1943
Ademeit(160) 07/10/1943
Hafner(203) 19/10/1943
Wiesse(118) 20/10/1943
Rudorffer(220) 22/10/1943
Wolf(142) 25/10/1943
Lang(170) 03/11/1943
Leie(121) 06/11/1943
Brendel(189) 22/11/1943
Weber(126) 23/12/1943
Fonnekold(134) 12/01/1944
Mayer(102+) 05/02/1944
Batz(235) 22/03/1944
Sturm(122+) 08/04/1944
Lipfert(200) 15/04/1944
Waldmann(131) 18/04/1944
Hoffmann(130) 22/04/1944
Sterr(108) 01/05/1944
Gratz(138) 06/05/1944
Weiss(122) 19/05/1944
Tegtmeier(146) 20/05/1944
Wolfrum(134) 04/06/1944
Sachsenberg(104) 08/06/1944
Wurmheller(102) 12/06/1944
Lent(111) 16/06/1944
Schuck(176+) c.17/06/1944
Trenkel(132) 17/07/1944
Josten(178) 20/07/1944
Obleser(112+) 21/07/1944
Borchers(132) 22/08/1944
Norz(104) 23/08/1944 1239 hrs
Dorr(122) 23/08/1944 1302 hrs
Schall(133) 31/08/1944
Wernicke(118) 14/09/1944 1650 hrs
Eisenach(129) 14/09/1944 1821 hrs
Duttmann(147) 25/09/1944
Thyben(157) 30/09/1944
Priller(100) 12/10/1044
Birkner(116) 16/10/1944
Schnaufer(119) 06/11/1944
Schroer(106) 15/03/1945
Wernitz!010) 26/03/1945
Vechtel(108) 26/03/1944
Lambert(103) c.April 1945
Marquardt(121) 14/04/1945
Galland(101) 26/04/1945

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Thanks for interesting answers, Maxim and Johannes!

Johannes, would you be kind and specify which of the usually mentioned 203 kills of Lipfert were unconfirmed, the last two plus one of those claimed before 15 Apr 44?

And secondly, Ubben is usually credited with 110 kills, were those 10+ unconfirmed claims spread evenly along his claiming history 1940-43, or was/were there period(s) when several of his claims were not confirmed?

TIA
Juha

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hallo Juha

Lipfert I have six u/c, but the three often thought to be confirmed at 01/04/44, 11/06/44 and 24/06/44. With Ubben Total 93, 76 East, 16 West, 1 viermot) 27/07/41, 01/10/41, 23/10/41, 24/02/42, 05/03/42, 12/03/42, 03/11/42, 05/11/42, 06/11/42 X 2, 11/12/42, 15/12/42 and 06/05/43...so pretty well spread. With Buhlighen(99+) I have eight u/c, and I believe he was probably active in 1945, so more likely 112 claims of which 104 were confirmed. With Sterr there is just not the number often quoted for him, with Sturm again not the number often quoted for him, however the Micro Films for this unit ease of Nov/Dec 1944 in a period when he should have been quite active, yet his wingmann reputed the total of over 150 and stated about 125! With Wolfrum and Lambert I have a document dated 17th April 1945 mentioning there totals as 134 and 103, with Rall one of his Eastern claims is not on the micro films, and moreover as the staffel's sequence of claim number are complete I assume it was not confirmed, Rall himself also confessed that he never completed the paper work for his last(as wounded), but it is known to have fallen. With Mayer I have put 102+ because there is a Micro Film that lists only Date and time, and there is one not listed on the complete micro films, and as Mayer is the only one claiming with the Staff of Jg2 I should think it was him, but can't be sure! Franz-Walter Woidich's(82) is most interesting his missing one's all appear in July 1944(I even have the dates), however these are ommitted in his own abschusse liste, moreover all his comrades appear in the micro films and only his are missing, also his claims appear very conservative and honest, yet in July 1944 they are explosive, and I think sombody has made them up! Dahl(90 total 56 East, 34 West, 22 viermots) I just don't know where the total comes from, possibly a points system! With Erhler I state 180+, I know he was active in October 1944 where he would have claimed more, but after this more he would have been engaged only in combat against Allied aircraft not Russian, and basically wasn't flying anyway! Philipp seems to have quite a few u/c. With Stotz there is a mention of him having 183 victories at an airfield, which is exactly the number I found on the micro films, with Kirschner again a number of u/c. With Galland the viermots he claimed on 09/10/43 and 08/03/44 x 2 were not on the micro films, yet he was very honest, but banned from combat and unable to submit the claims! With Fonnekold I actually found 134 in the East not 133, but no confirmed Mustangs on his last day(probably nobody could be bothered to do the paperwork).

This goes on endlessly, yet others like Hrabak are spot-on previous thoughts. must also remember that many were dead, there log-books lost, so how can say what the totals were, let alone the date of the 100th, many of those who survived were relieved of there log-books after the war by the American's, and have now been lost i.e Hartmann, Obleser e.t.c.

I'll be happy to answer anymore speciafic questions.

Kind regrads

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hello Johannes,

For Major Kurt Brändle (II./JG 3) his total number of victories is very often stated as 180. German sources also state 172. After studying Tony Wood etc the number 172 is more likely.

Do you agree?

Best regards,
Rob

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Rob

With regards to Kurt-Werner Brandle, I could only find 170 154 in the East and 16 in the West, the last two being in the West on 3rd November 1943. The typed out Micro Film for his staffel is extremely under exposed, so no doubt I could have missed some, but I don't think so. He was a moderate claimer, and I believe honest like most JG53 pilots. His best days were 26th July 1942 73-77, 7th August 1942 85-89 and 17th December 1942 111-115. Numbers 1-7 were in the West, numbers 8-28 in the East, numbers 29-35 in the West, numbers 36-168 in the East and 169-170 in the West.

Personally when you consider his honesty, I think he is under-rated.

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Thanks a lot, Johannes
for your thorough and exhaustive answer!
Much of very interesting info.

One more question, a little bit off topic but how about Edmund Rossmann, he is usually credited with 92 or 93 victories?

TIA
Juha

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Juha

Rossmann got ninety-three, but all in the East, his six Western claims were all unconfirmed!

Keep the questions coming.

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Johannes, Thanks a lot for your instant answer!
That was a surprise, so he has 6 more confirmed kills in the East than usually credited for him.
How exceptional it is that a 75+ kill ace has none of his first 5-6 kills confirmed? Or a Jagdfliger that had none of his 5+ 1940 claims accepted?

TIA
Juha

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Juha

It is strange, but true. My friend Bernd Barbas has always wondered actually why JG52 had so little success in the West, only one notable pilot! These unconfirmed Western claims come from Rossmann himself, and he even stated that they were unconfirmed!

Another notable clear-up would be Friedrich Wachowaik known to have had eighty-six Eastern claims, but thought later to have added many more Russian aircraft to his total perhaps another fifty! But I can tell you now there were only three more to bring his total to eighty-nine, all in the East.

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hello Johannes
thanks a lot again!
What put me wonder the issue was that Paule was at least during later war years independent minded and not always showed enough respect to higher authorities. In a military organisation with that kind of attitude one might well run into difficulties with his superiors. Much depended on those superiors, so maybe he ran into difficulties to get his claims accepted at unit level. Of course it is more probable that there just was not enough evidence to back up Rossmann’s first 6 claims. After all III./JG 52 was rather roughly handled by FC during the BoB

Juha

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Juha

Possibly he learnt how to get his claims through. It was always more difficult in the West, later the high command sort out the crash site's and matched them up with claims. In the east most claims were behind enemy lines, so that tool for establishing actual crashes was not employed!

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hello Johannes,

Thanks for your comments on Major Kurt Brändle.

Can you please also comment on Hauptmann Joachim Kirschner (RK after 51 victories), Hauptmann Werner Lucas (RK after 57 victories) and Oberleutnant Wolf Ettel (RK after 117 victories)? All were flying in II./JG 3.

Why Ettel after so many more victories? Like Gustav Frielinghaus RK (in 1944) after 74 victories.., but Franz Ruhl RK after 35 (in 1944) victories...

Thank you.

Best regards,
Rob

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi

I think the answer could be inflation! 1943-1944 you would need about 100 claims for a Ritterkreuz, unless you'd been killed i.e Dobele RK 93 claims at death! Quite a few were Ritterkreuzless with more than 60 claims, but all of these are post 1942. I believe rank also plays a part, and also the unit, and the speed at which they were claiming.

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hello there

I see from Johannes's list that Clausen got his 100th confirmed on 17/08/1943. I have him as a 132 victory ace until his death on October 1943. I am surprised that he had 30+ victories unconfirmed, I have always considered him to be a reliable claimer!
Any comment Johannes?
Thanks in advance

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi

It not a case of 30+ unconfirmed, I could'nt find any more on the micro films, so unless he scored with another unit during the pre-daily micro film entry's, then 100 it is, also he didn't confirm as many heavy bombers anyway...only ten(all B-17's)

With Anton Hackl his total should be 180+ as KBT documents number his last claims in March 1945 as numbers 179-180.
With Galland I would down grade to 100 as one of his two B-26's claimed on 26th April 1945 was only a probable!

Top daytime heavy specialist was Egon Mayer with twenty-seven.

Top Il-2 specialist is probably Joachim Brendel, I have eighty-seven for him, but don't have all of his claims so there were more almost certainly more, Otto Kittel had eighty-nine until the end of 1944!

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Johannes,

Thanks - seems like inflation...

Can you please give your comments on Hptm Joachim Kirschner, Oblt Wolf Ettel and Hptm Werner Lucas? All were flying in II./JG 3. Thanks for your help.

Best regards,
Rob

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Rob

With regards to Kirschner, if he was honest he would be one of the best, don't know about JG3, but JG27 was pretty honest. His decorations came at convienient times.I have several unconfirmed for him.

With Wolf-Udo Ettel he got his Ritterkreuz at a convienient break in combat, and it came late i.e after 118 confirmations I would guess just because he claimed so many in a short time, then when he was killed the Eichenlaub caught him up.

With Lucas I believe he got his Ritterkreuz cheaply, and thus the Eichenlaub would be delayed until he would read the going rate of about 150 at the time, or slightly less if postumous.

Funny thing is that all JG3 top aces are quite obscure, I don't know why, and they seemed unable to transfere there skills at claiming Russian's into Western kills, (with the exception of Kirschner), perhaps it was the area they were deployed i.e within range of US fighters.

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Johannes if you don't mind ,some elaboration here
About Kircshner I remember reading that his multiple claims against P-38 in late 1943 when he was in JG27( along with Bartels's), before his death, are somehow dubious since they are not confirmed by post war research.
Unfortunately I don't remember other details.
About Wachowiak, I wonder what participation in battle he had in 1943-1944 in order to claim only, three more victories.
Furthermore, what about Tanzer ( 143 kills) and Eberhard von Boremski who I have him as a 104 victory ace.
Is there any chance a JG3 pilot namely Hans Shleef ( officially 99 victories) to have scored over 100 ?
...and finally you said that Dahne may have up to 128 kills, please do elaborate here.
I really thank you in advance and by all means keep up the good job

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Johannes,

Thanks for your info -

Yes, most the aces of II./JG 3 (the unit I am interested in) did obtain large numbers of victories in the East and were not able to maintain this level in the West. Very different air battles etc.

But Leopold Münster and Hans Grünberg were able to claim at some level.

II./JG 3 was transfered from the East at the end of July 43/beginning Aug 43 in order to defend Germany (Reichsverteidigung) and was stationed at Schiphol airfield from Sept 43 - Dec 43. Here the unit suffered large losses - lost two Gruppenkommandeure (Brändle and Lemke) and two Staffelkapitäne (Stolte and Lucas). Many "alte Hasen" did not return, despite that they were successfull in the East...

Best regards,
Rob

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Guys

With Kirschner I said assuming he was honest, as I don't know much about JG3 pilots, his pattern of claims does suggest he was something less than honest, but you can't tell until proven against Allied losses, and claiming four Lightnings in one day(15th November 1943) is easy to pick-up on, if was dis-honest with JG27 which was an averagely honest unit, then for sure he would have been dis-honest with JG3.

With Von Boremski I have eighty-eight confirmed for him(84 in the East)last on 24th April 1943, seems he did return to combat in 1945, but I don't know for sure.

With Wachowaik I have eighty-six confirmed in Russia until 29th November 1942, then he was training Croatian pilots with 15./JG52 before claiming three additional Russian aircraft in May 1944.

With Tanzer he made four claims on 6th May 1943 his 36th-39th, but was himself dadly wounded, moreover I do not think he returned to combat until February 1945, when do doubt he claimed further Russian aircraft. Don't know where the totals of 128 or 143 come from, his Ritterkreuz was for 39 only.....and being Oskar-Heinz Bar's wingman, perhaps his total is forty-three!

I have Munster with eight-six confirmed, seventy-two in the East, fourteen in the West, of which ten were heavies.

Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

It is very interesting, I have only 48 for him. Could you please provide his Abschussliste?

Best regards,
Maxim

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Hi Maxim, and anybody else interested.

I have yet to figure out how to make attachments on 12oclockhigh, so if you forward your personnal e.mail address to me I'll send on his abschusse liste.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: First Luftwaffe aces to 100 kills in chronological order
 

Sent you a PM.

Regards,
Maxim