Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

In the 2nd volume of 2nd Tactical Air Force, Chris Shores flatly denies that Oblt Lang was shot down by the 55th Fg, but was instead shot down by 41 Sq RAF.
Don Caldwell makes a good case for the 55th FG in JG-26: Vol II, but Chris Shores instead disputes the claim stating that Sq Ldr Terry Spencer, 41 Sq shot him down. Opinions anyone?

Also, Sq. Ldr Wally McLeod was shot down on September 27th,1944 by a Bf-109 while flying with 443 Sq. In 2nd Tactical AF, the description of this event is somewhat misleading. The mission on which SqLdr McLeod was shot down was the same one in which Wg Cdr. Johnny Johnson shot down his last kill of the war, a Bf-109. This is clearly evident from his account in "Wing Leader" where Johnny Johnson describes how Wally McLeod followed a climbing Bf-109 who made a stall turn and came back at Sq Ldr McLeod's Spitfire.
In the 2nd Tactical AF book, these are described as two separate missions. I believe this to be in error.
Anyhow, who shot down Sq Ldr McLeod? I/JG-76 reported 5 Spitfire victories around this time. Altogether 15 Spitfires were claimed by the Luftwaffe on this day for about 6 Spitfures lost to enemy fighters.

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Hello everyone,

Just signed on to the forum, I have to reply to the question over Sqn/Ldr McLeod as maybe this way I can get the information that I have been searching for during the past 2 years.

According to Franks Vol 3, McLeod was found after the war NNW of Wesel, in a reply I received from the AHB way back in 2003, he was buried in Elten cemetery in Germany just to the north west of Emmerich, transferred to Reichswald cemetery Plot 2, row B, Grave 12 and then transferred again to Rhineberg cemetery Plot 8, row E, Grave 25.

Firstly, why was he transferred from Reichswald to Rheinberg ? and has anybody got information as to if Elten really was his original burial place or was Elten used after the war as a temporary cemetery until the offical military cemeteries were completed.?

The reason why I am so interested in McLeod is I have an unconfirmed eyewitness report from an elderly woman who says that a british Spitfire pilot was recovered after the war from a small german village to the west of the Rhine river mid to late 1945, the wreckage of the Spitfire was then in late 45 early 46 removed from the site . As McLeod was lost NNW of Wesel (Franks) and shot down by a 109 20 miles east of Nijmegen (AHB), this puts the village of Obermörmter close to both.

As to who shot him down , there are still a lot of possibilities, the claims from JG 76 are whittled down to 5, 3 claims given while 2 were not confirmed, all in the Emmerich area between 13.26 and 13.55 apart from the given claim of Lt. Boer which states his Spitfire came down at Apeldoorn, which if my geography is correct is to the north of Arnheim. There is however, an Appeldorn village only 5km away from Obermörmter, maybe a spelling mistake on the german side. There are two more claims for the early afternoon from JG 4 that also come into consideration, also in the Emmerich area, about 13.50-13.58.

If anyone has access or very good contact to the MRES records, which I believe are still restricted, then they could resolve the question of where he was lost.

Hoping for a reply

Niederrhein 01

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Hello,

Quote from "From White Caps to Contrails"
' After uneventful patrols on the morning of the 27th, W/C Johnson destroyed his 38th (highest total in RAF) enemyaircraft in a melee over Rees on the banks of the Rhine. F/O Rooney Hodgins forced another Messerschmitt away from his commander and got another destroyed for himself. F/O H.P. Fuller gave the "tail-end charlie" of the German formation bursts of cannon and machine-gun fire to do it in. F/L E.B.Stovel, F/O Gilbert and F/L Walz also tallied one each.
But these victories were won at a heavy cost. S/L H.W. McLeod DSO,DFC and Bar , who at 21 enemy aircraft to his credit and was the top-scoring day-fighter pilot in the RCAF , was missing.'

FCL vol 3 has - NH245, "patrol Nijmegen, pm. Shot down by Me109 east of the town."

Photo in Spitfire-the Canadians has hin standing in front of his Spitfire IX "2I-E" MK636. Artwork on dust cover has this a/c in D-Day stripes .
This a/c later became MM4080 of the Italian AF. Spitfire International has Italy-MM4080, Fate unknown.

Alex

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Hello Alex,

Your post would seem to reinforce my theory about the unknown british Spitfire pilot being that of Sqd Ldr Mcleod at Obermörmter, as the village is just opposite Rees on the west bank of the Rhine.
Every piece of information that I receive gets me a little bit closer to finally solving the puzzle.

Thanks

Niederrhein 01

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Niederrhein 01

Squadron Leader Wally McLeod was Canadian and he was from Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada.

Stephen

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Well, actually George "Buzz" Beurling was the top-scoring day-fighter pilot in the RCAF.

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

George,

Actually, Beurling wasn't the top RCAF fighter pilot because he was originally in the RAF before switching over to the RCAF towards the end of his career whereas McLeod was in the RCAF from the beginning.

Stephen

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

An interesting story...

If the books don't agree with one another (and Johnson was probably relying on his memories rather than files, as with most pilots' memoirs) it seems that someone needs to check the Wing and Squadron Operations Record Books and any pilots' Sortie Reports that survive at the UK National Archives (which, AFAIK is what Chris Shores and Chris Thomas spent years doing for the new edition of 2nd TAF).

It's quite possible that even then the position won't be clear and that's where interpretation comes in. Even so, the source materials are the best bet for trying to work out which book is correct.

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Stephen,

That is understood. Nevertheless, he is still considered Canada's highest scoring ace.

George

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Hi,

Just some idea as to how he looked, and how the spitfire looked, this is not the one he was killed in .


Alex

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

I know that a group of British Army types toured Germany and other parts of Europe after the Second World War looking for graves of allied service men in order to document and prepare their remains for removal to proper cemeteries. I do know that reports were filled out and they contained in detail what was found and location etc. Now, what I would like to know is if one was filled out for McLeod and if any photos were taken of the wreck?

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Stephen

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Hi,

It's interesting sometimes to look back at old posts - this one caught my eye as I have just read Dilip Sarkar's latest "Spitfire -Ace Of Aces" a full bio on Johnny Johnson ( incorporating his 2 previous volumes - Spitfire Top Gun 1+2 and adding the final months of Johnson's combat career).In it on pp273 he attributes Wally McLeods loss to Major Siegfried Freytag the acting Kommodore of JG.77 ! and not to a JG.76 pilot - does this stand up ?

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Acoording to Shore "2nd Tactical AF", Maj Freytag claimed his victim at 0930, probably in a fight with 421 SQ.

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Hallo,
ORB 443 Squadron
UP 12.20 Down: 13.50 British time!!
Aircraft despatched on high patrol to Nijmegen-Venlo with W/C J.E Johnson, Wingco Flying No. 127 Wing, leading.
Nine Me 109's sighted flying west at 1.000'at Rees and engaged 20 miles east of Nijmegen. Our a./c bounced from 9.000' and in dogfight one Me 109 was destroyed by each of the following:
W/C J.E Johnson, F/L E.B Stovel, F/Lt D.M. Walz, F/L H.P. Fuller, F/O W.A.G. Gilbert. A probable is claimed by F/L Stovel and another by W/O R.A Hodgins. S/L H.W. McLeod, DSO, DFC&Bar is mising after the mission, there being no information on his whereabouts after the bounce was made. A/C flown by F/L E.B. Stovel shot up by enemy cannon and despite large hole in port wing, he was able to return to base. Innacurate, moderate light flak at A-0852, innacurate, moderate light flak at E-9238.
Weather: 9/10ths cloud at 5-6.000'.
ORB form 541

412 squadron RCAF
Up 11.30 h Down 13.30-13.45 British time
12 a/c Low Frontline Patrol in the Nijmegen Area.
In Reichswald Forest War Cemetery Grave 2-B-12 is resting:
P/O Paul Emile Hurtubise
Spitfire NH-189

I am in possesion of a report (Air Ministry S.14 Cas. 2/12/1948) which says:
..as we have no other outstanding fighter missing which fits, the grave is accepted for J-4912 Squadron Leader McLeod.
But grave 2-B-12 (now!)contains the remains of P/O Hurtubise!!!
I know that an unknown Canadian fighter pilot was buried at Elten. Crashed in his Spitfire just East of Elten.

I do not know when or where (NW of Wesel?)the body of MCLeod was found, but i think they did not bury him in Reichswald Forest at all! I think he was recovered and buried in Rheinberg War Cemetery!
But I have no proof!

See also McLeod in LBB (Luftwaffe Bullet Board)

Regards
Karl Lusink
ARGA

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Bruce:

Wow! I missed this somehow. Wing Leader was an early read of mine way back when (let's just say it was before cars had fins ;)). What's the evaluation of Sarkar's book on Johnson?
It always mystified me whay he scored no victories for the last 7 months. Does this book look at that issue?

THX

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Attached are the Ultras I have on fighter actions on 27 September, in case they're helpful.

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries
 

Thanks Nick !!

Regards
Karl Lusink
ARGA