New forum idea for books
 

Since books have always been center stage on 12oclockhigh! I've been thinking on how to improve the forum to deal with them.

One idea would be based on creating new sub-forums, perhaps on request, based on single title or a(n ongoing) series.

This would remove some of the sticky clutter on the main forums, where we can put a (temporary) link to the sub forum.

If there is interest the author and or publisher could even get limited moderator rights within said sub forum. It would enable them to publish notes and comments, errata etc in a more focused manner.

Just think in terms of:


BOOKS:

• Jagdwaffe Colours
• Die Jagdflieger verbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe
• Black Cross/Red Star

or

• Classic Books
• Eagle Editions

or even

• Eric Mombeek
• etc

Such a forum could be open to members, or be more closely moderated showing new posts only after approval.

Just an idea which I would like to put forward to the community to enhance the forum and bring on the second year.

Please make sure you take the opportunity to vote!

Re: New forum idea for books
 

First thing is that I really hope that all book related discussion takes place on the book forum!!! Currently the most juicy discussion on e.g. the JG 300 takes place on the wrong forum. Please correct this first (e.g. move the discussions where they belong).

Re: New forum idea for books
 

Thanks for your reaction Jukka, however it isn't as simple as you might think.

Although I tried to keep book related items in the designated forum it became clear that people want to use the main forums to maximize their exposure, which is only natural.

I need to find a bridge.

The probable answer will be a sub forum link, but I'll have to play around with this first.

However I want to go a step further by providing the opportunity to create a more controlled environment. No more flames after an announcement etc. On going project can benefit from their own sub forum as well.

The poll is still open, I'd like to know if our community really wants this or not.

Re: New forum idea for books
 

Ruy, I suggest to move threads just after the ottest discussion ends. More job for a moderator but I think it is the best sollution.

Re: New forum idea for books
 

I will like a sub-forums about books. I would also like a place to post errata (either by authors or other people). Not to start flame war about the book subject or approach., but to correct typo and names and dates and so on.

A bit like that: http://uboat.net/books/errata/listing.html

Re: New forum idea for books
 

An excellent idea, Laurent. I second that.
Juha

Re: New forum idea for books
 

I would support that idea too. One question remains, who edits the errata section? Can anybody do that or only the author? I would support an errata sheet but would be hesitant to do so if anybody can put data on it. It could and in a "welles-nietes" game.....Ruy knows what I mean...:-)))

Re: New forum idea for books
 

You are absolutely right, and the "welles - niettes" issue does demand a more restricted posting policy. Yes, I am personally inclined to:

1. Author / publisher moderating right within his subforum (he can choose to use this or not...)
2. delayed posting, requiring moderator approval

There is a place for open discourse and that's the general book forum.

This new plan covers a more restricted area that will serve as an information and presentation platform.

So if you'd like a sub forum based on Bodenplatte to be open, we'll set it up that way, yet if you want it totally restricted to yourself as author that's also a possiblity.

Re: New forum idea for books
 

What I was thinking of was indeed a sub-(sub)-forum on the Bodenplatte book with the first thread being used as an Errata section with access limited to me and the moderators. Discussions could take place in other threads. Is such a thing possible? I would be willing to start such an undertaking with posting an Errata word-file on that sub-forum. Any thoughts Ruy?

Re: New forum idea for books
 

We should be able to set up something like that.

I'll play around with this idea on the test forum, let you know ASAP.

Thanks for picking up on this, I really think it can work as an extra tool to the community, both from the point of view of the writer/publisher and the readers.

Bedankt!

Re: New forum idea for books
 

Dear Ruy,

I faced this same organizational problem when I created the "References & Reference Materials" forum on LWAG which, as you know, is primarily transfers in from TOCH!.

Organizing book topics under major groupings I found to be virtually impossible. For instance, where would you put Manfred Boehme's book JG 7? It's about a Luftwaffe unit, so it could be put under a section on units or operations. But, it is also a book about the Me 262, so it could just as well fall under books on aircraft types. Making matters worse, think of books on Walter Nowotny, which could be sorted by pilot, unit, and aircraft.

Further complicating matters is that, in the discussion on almost any topic, there can be references to one or more books. Quite frequently, there is a great surprise that a book on "X" contains information on "Y" and it is only that someone familiar with this fact shares it with us. So, a book might actually be referenced yet a fourth way, by some gem buried deep inside.

Up until the change in TOCH! format, I was hand laboring to try to disperse the commentaries into LWAG, frequently doing multiple entries, although, at the end, I tended to pick the one I thought most germaine and then entered directors to this thread under the other possible subjects.

In the end, what truly was needed was a search engine that could search for entries like JG 7, i.e., something less than 4 continuous characters. The phpBB2 software of LWAG is not so equipped, a real drawback forcing folks to laboriously search page after page of index if a unit is sought after. Pilots' names are much easier to search for and, in the end, it is the search engine, rather than a title, author, or subject grouping that bails you out. Being one who likes organization, this is a huge mental shift.

One of the real strengths of TOCH! is the commentary on a specific book. People want to know whether it is worth shelling out a large sum of money for a new book. TOCH! members are pretty mercilous in their reviews, canning bad books, but also praising good ones. Sometimes the comments are fair, sometimes not. It is for the eventual purchaser to decide, much as reading movie reviews and considering whether the subject content is still of sufficient interest in the face of a bad review to be worth the price of admission.

There can also be disagreement as to whether material contained in a book is factual or not. These disagreements have led to some classic flame wars. But, cutting through the flames, being aware that there are disagreements is to the good. Taking everything in a book as factual can be a huge mistake. So, commentary pro and con is most welcome.

And, one last word. Look for references. A book with good references can be worth its weight in gold. It also helps to buttress what the author has to say. However, even with references, one has to be rather careful as to what they are and the general subject matter the author is trying to support. If, for instance, the book covers a topic attempting to cross into the Twilight Zone and the references are predominantly secondary sources or unrelated to the thesis being proposed, then the reader should be extremely cautious, if not downright skeptical. Just because an author puts a reference after a particularly unusual assertion doesn't necessarily say that the reference supports the assertion. It may, in fact, support a very non-important element within his text, rather than the point he is trying to make. Generally, the tenor of a book provides the best clues as to whether one is drifting off into la-la land.

Regards,
Richard

Re: New forum idea for books
 

Dear Ruy,

I should comment that one potential way out of the organizational morasse is to simply list the books alphabetically. Hopefully, the search engine can then find all the books that pertain to a particular subject.

What would be helpful is a summary and critique of each book, as well as the diverse views of the membership as to what they think about it. Unfortunately, the publisher's write-ups on websites like Amazon.com are going to be lauditory, regardless of the inherent quality, but at least they may give a clue as to the content.

While the above would be helpful, the questions are who would do this and how to do it? A few kind souls have taken the trouble to summarize books. Setting up a venue for the purpose may act to encourage more. But, how would this differ from the book and magazine section that already exists?

We're also more likely to get views on new books rather than old ones, which means that a whole world of good books would likely be overlooked.

Unlikely to be included in the book area would be quotes used in arguments on different subjects. I don't really see a way to incorporate them, except via the search engine.

Regards,
Richard

Re: New forum idea for books
 

Lets not get carried away, the idea is not an all inclusive booklist.

What I am offering is a means of communication on this forum to those authors and publishers who wish to make use of this medium. The idea is pretty modest in scope, offering an improved service to what is already offered to those who are interested.

Re: New forum idea for books
 

Dear Ruy,

So, the obvious question is: "How would it differ from the forum already set up for the purpose?"

Perhaps you were trying to figure out a way to consolidate book reviews that appear in other forums. If so, alas, it is up to you to move them and, hopefully, the membership will catch on as to where they should be posted in the first place.

Regards,
Richard

Re: New forum idea for books
 

Since John Manrho was so kind to volunteer, I've set up a special sub-forum for his book Bodenplatte

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=16

The sub-forum is still awaiting John's input.

I can set up similar sub-forums to those who are interested.

Re: New forum idea for books
 

Ruy,

I am on a business trip till the end of the week, so I will try to put some info in the forum next weekend!

Thanks,

John.