Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Hi Guys,
In reading through the accounts for JG 27, JG 52, JG 53, JG 51 I have found a gap in claims for these Jagdgeschwader for the period July 16 thru 21 July. I am certain they were shooting down Soviet planes during this period but I have not found any reports or scores. Was this a period of bad weather? Another thing I have noticed are how few claims are talked about concerning I-16 and I-153 shot down ...were they just too uninteresting to recall in a narrative? More than half of all VVS fighters available in this sector were these types. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

What sources are you looking through for this information?

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

I was looking at the Osprey and Kagero series on the various JGs, Black Cross Red Star (BCRS). If you know better (and easily accessible sources) I'm all eyes...

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Osprey has one that I see that might give you a lttle information. Polikarpov I-15, I-16 and I-153 aces by Mikhail Maslov and Mark Postlethwaite. Then if you are looking for the claims that were made by these units it helps if you read German because the best source there is Die Jagdfliegerverbaende Teil 6 volume I and II by Jochen Prien. Then there are Russian magzines and books. Then also in English is "From Barbarossa to Odessa volume 1 & 2 by Denes Bernad. If you haven't tried it yet use a translator program and go to www.allaces.ru some of the material is Soviet era and may not be up to date.

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Thanks for the reply,

As for VVS loss reports a good deal of that I already have (V. V. Kharin's site at Allaces I use almost daily but thanks for the reference)...what I am looking for are the Jagdgeschwader claims for a very specific time period 16-21 July in Army Group Center, II amd VIII Fliegerkorps for comparison to
the VVS data. From Barbarossa to Odessa by Denes Bernad is a great book and I own both volumes but it does not deal with the Smolensk operation. Herr Jochen Prien is out of my price range right now.http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon9.gif Without investing a large amount of time and resources to researching this I thought I'd try here first.
thanks again
Oquaig

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Here is what I have:

16-7-1941 Oblt. Rudolf von Mentzingen Stab/JG 3 DB-3 - 11.50 (1)
16-7-1941 Fw. Otto Tange 5./JG 51 DB-3 3km S. Smolensk 12.45 (13)
16-7-1941 Fw. Friedrich Heimann 5./JG 51 V-11 E. Stara Bychow 16.12 (5)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Hans Strelow 5./JG 51 V-11 E. Stara Bychow 16.16 (3)
16-7-1941 Uffz. Hermann Aubrecht 5./JG 51 V-11 - 19.05 (6)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Georg Seelmann 11./JG 51 DB-3 - 10.12 (20)
16-7-1941 Fw. Heinrich Klöpper 11./JG 51 DB-3 5km E. Gusino 10.14 (8)
16-7-1941 Uffz. Franz-Josef Beerenbrock 12./JG 51 DB-3 - 09.20 (12)
16-7-1941 Uffz. Franz-Josef Beerenbrock 12./JG 51 DB-3 - 09.25 (13)
16-7-1941 Ofw. Heinrich Hoffmann 12./JG 51 DB-3 - 09.25 (20)
16-7-1941 Ofw. Heinrich Hoffmann 12./JG 51 DB-3 - 09.28 (21)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Karl-Gottfried Nordmann 12./JG 51 DB-3 S. Smolensk 12.30 (29)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Erwin Fleig 1./JG 51 V-11 15km SE Tschenkow 19.15 (22)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Walter Stengel 6./JG 51 I-16 Rata - - (9)
16-7-1941 Hptm. Richard Leppla Stab III./JG 51 V-11 - 18.25 (26)
16-7-1941 Major Günther Lützow Stab/JG 3 SB-2 - - (37)
16-7-1941 Major Günther Lützow Stab/JG 3 I-16 Rata - - (38)
16-7-1941 Major Günther Lützow Stab/JG 3 DB-3 - - (39)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Detlev Rohwer Stab I./JG 3 SB-3 10km E. Berditschew 15.25 (17)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Hans-Jürgen Borchers Stab I./JG 3 SB-3 10km E. Berditschew 15.26 (4)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Detlev Rohwer Stab I./JG 3 SB-3 10km E. Berditschew 15.28 (18)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Detlev Rohwer Stab I./JG 3 SB-3 10km E. Berditschew 15.30 (19)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Hans-Jürgen Borchers Stab I./JG 3 SB-3 10km E. Berditschew 15.32 (5)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Eberhard Eichner 1./JG 3 SB-3 - - (3)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Robert Olejnik 1./JG 3 SB-3 - - (31)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Robert Olejnik 1./JG 3 SB-3 - - (32)
16-7-1941 Ofhr. Fred Neumayer 1./JG 3 SB-3 - - (2)
16-7-1941 Uffz. Johannes Schiffer 1./JG 3 SB-3 - - (10)
16-7-1941 Fw. Detlev Lüth 1./JG 3 SB-3 - - (9)
16-7-1941 Hptm. Gordon Gollob Stab II./JG 3 DB-3 - 11.42 (15)
16-7-1941 Hptm. Gordon Gollob Stab II./JG 3 SB-2 - 11.44 (16)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Heinz Schönefeldt Stab II./JG 3SB-2 - 11.43 -
16-7-1941 Oblt. Walther Dahl Stab II./JG 3 I-16 S. Koziatyn 15.45 (2)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Herbert Kijewski 5./JG 3 E/a - 16.25 (14)
16-7-1941 Fw. Walter Ohlrogge 5./JG 3 E/a - 16.25 -
16-7-1941 Oblt. Georg Michalek 4./JG 3 RZ - 18.45 (12)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Viktor Bauer 9./JG 3 DB-3 10km E. Pawolotsch 10.40 (35)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Helmut Mertens 9./JG 3 I-153 Starischtsche 12.20 (15)
16-7-1941 Ofw. Hans Stechmann 9./JG 3 I-153 Starischtsche 12.21 (25)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Helmut Mertens 9.JG 3 I-153 Starischtsche 12.21 (16)
16-7-1941 Ofw. Hans Stechmann 9./JG 3 I-153 Starischtsche 12.24 (26)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Helmut Mertens 9./JG 3 I-153 Starischtsche 12.24 (17)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Kurt Sochatzy 7./JG 3 SB-3 - 15.23 (25)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Kurt Sochatzy 7./JG 3 SB-3 - 15.25 (26)
16-7-1941 Uffz. Hans Schleef 7./JG 3 SB-3 - 15.26 (8)
16-7-1941 Uffz. Hans Schleef 7./JG 3 SB-2 - 15.26 (9)
16-7-1941 Fw. Georg Schentke 9./JG 3 I-16 - 16.00 (25)
16-7-1941 Fw. Georg Schentke 9./JG 3 DB-3 15km E. Kasatyn 16.00 (26)
16-7-1941 Fw. Gotthard Glaubig 8./JG 3 R-Z - 17.35 (3)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Wilhelm Lemke 8./JG 3 R-Z Belaja-Zerkow 17.35 (10)
16-7-1941 Fw. Gerhard Gleuwitz 6./JG 52 SB-2 10km N. Salutsche 14.00 (5)
16-7-1941 Gefr. Walter Heck 5./JG 54 I-153 - 16.35 (1)
16-7-1941 Uffz. Erwin Stalp 6./JG 54 SB-2 - 18.50 (3)
16-7-1941 n.n. Stab/ZG 76 I-16 -
16-7-1941 n.n. Stab/ZG 76 I-16 -
16-7-1941 n.n. Stab/ZG 76 I-16 -
16-7-1941 Major Günther von Maltzahn Stab/JG 53 SB-3 - 07.50 (36)
16-7-1941 Ofw. Hans Kornatz 2./JG 53 DB-3 10km S. Wassilkow 07.25 (5)
16-7-1941 Ofw. Hans Kornatz 2./JG 53 SB-3 6km E. Fasslow 11.20 (6)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Norbert Schäfer 1./JG 53 DB-3 - 11.24 (1)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Hans Ohly 1./JG 53 DB-3 NE Ziabel 11.25 (10)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Heinrich von Schwerdtner 2./JG 53 DB-3 - 11.30 (4)
16-7-1941 Ltn. Norbert Schäfer 1./JG 53 DB-3 - - (n.b.)
16-7-1941 Oblt. Werner Ursinius 3./JG 53 DB-3 Korosten 12.35 (2)
16-7-1941 Uffz. Herbert Rollwage 4./JG 53 SB-2 - - (n.b.)

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Would second Nokose's recommendations. The 'Die Jagdfliegerverbaende' Teil 6 volume I and II by Jochen Prien, along with the other volumes in the series fill in many 'holes' in Tony's transcribed lists, as well as correcting many mistakes (and I hate to call them mistakes because he, as well as other authors, was transcribing from hand written documents) along with errors from previously published sources. This is true of all previously published lists. 'Die Jagdfliegerverbaende' - all volumes in the series, have significant differences in what may have been previously published for all units.

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Wow, Thanks Maxim1,
That is a pretty impressive list for 16 July. One question: what type of aircraft do you think the "SB-3" claims are for? A typo? Ar-2?
But thanks all the same

Oquaig

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Sorry, no idea. We can just say one thing, it was a Russian twin-engine bomber.

17-7-1941 Uffz. Walther Hillgruber 9./JG 27 DB-3 Pnewo 03.42 3
17-7-1941 Fw. Walter Matoni 9./JG 27 DB-3 Pnewo 03.45 2
17-7-1941 Uffz. Wilhelm Theimann 3./JG 51 SB-3 - 04.49 3
17-7-1941 Ofw. Anton Lenz 3./JG 51 SB-3 - 04.50 1
17-7-1941 Ofw. Anton Lenz 3./JG 51 SB-3 - 04.52 2
17-7-1941 Uffz. Herbert Broennle 2./JG 54 I-18 - 18.20 6
17-7-1941 Ltn. Erwin Leykauf 8./JG 54 RZ - 11.30 10
17-7-1941 Gefr. Josef Kaltenbach 1.(Erg)/JG 54 I-15 Südspitze ösel 06.40 1
17-7-1941 Ltn. Erwin Fleig 1./JG 51 SB-2 - 04.55 23
17-7-1941 Ltn. Erwin Fleig 1./JG 51 SB-2 - 04.56 24
17-7-1941 Uffz. Heinz Falk 1./JG 51 Pe-2 - 05.02 1
17-7-1941 Fw. Werner Bielefeldt 7./JG 51 SB-2 20km SE Bobruisk 11.25 14
17-7-1941 Uffz. Herbert Buschmann 7./JG 51 SB-2 - - 5
17-7-1941 Major Günther Lützow Stab/JG 3 DB-3 - - 40
17-7-1941 Ofw. Hermann Kniewasser 2./JG 3 SB-2 bis 15km S. Wassilkow 17.40 6
17-7-1941 Ltn. Kurt Eichler 2./JG 3 SB-2 bis 15km S. Wassilkow 17.45 5
17-7-1941 Fw. Ernst Heesen 2./JG 3 SB-2 bis 15km S. Wassilkow 17.45 8
17-7-1941 Ofw. Erwin Kortlepel 4./JG 3 DB-3 W. Motowilowka 14.40 11
17-7-1941 Ofw. Heinrich Brenner 4./JG 3 DB-3 N. Rozyn 14.40 2
17-7-1941 Oblt. Franz Beyer 8./JG 3 SB-3 - 16.03 21
17-7-1941 Fw. Gotthard Glaubig 8./JG 3 SB-3 - 16.04 4
17-7-1941 Oblt. Franz Beyer 8./JG 3 SB-3 - 16.05 22
17-7-1941 Ltn. Wilhelm Lemke 8./JG 3 DB-3 Rakitno 16.12 11
17-7-1941 Oblt. Franz Beyer 8./JG 3 DB-3 - 19.10 23
17-7-1941 Fw. Gotthard Glaubig 8./JG 3 DB-3 - 19.11 5
17-7-1941 Uffz. Heinz Kemethmüller 8./JG 3 DB-3 - 19.15 2
17-7-1941 n.n. I./JG 54 I-18 - -
17-7-1941 n.n. I./JG 54 I-18 - -
17-7-1941 Oblt. Rudolf Resch 6./JG 52 SB-2 - 13.12 3
17-7-1941 Fw. Gerhard Gleuwitz 6./JG 52 SB-2 - 13.14 6
17-7-1941 Oblt. Wolfgang Späte 5./JG 54 I-153 NW Ssoltzy 06.30 13
17-7-1941 Hptm. Franz Eckerle 6./JG 54 SB-2 - 09.35 15
17-7-1941 Ltn. Hans Beisswenger 6./JG 54 SB-2 - 09.37 10
17-7-1941 Uffz. Erwin Stalp 6./JG 54 SB-2 - 09.37 4
17-7-1941 Ltn. Josef Pöhs 5./JG 54 DB-3 - 16.50 21
17-7-1941 Oblt. Wolfgang Späte 5./JG 54 DB-3 E. Samra-See 20.30 14
17-7-1941 Uffz. Friedrich Zander 5./JG 54 DB-3 - 20.35 6
17-7-1941 Oblt. Friedrich-Wilhelm Strakeljahn 2.(J)/LG 2 I-16 Rata - 06.07 7
17-7-1941 Ltn. Ludwig Theopold 3.(J)/LG 2 I-16 Rata - - -
17-7-1941 Uffz. Otto Riedel 3.(J)/LG 2 I-16 Rata - - -
17-7-1941 Fw. Helmut Braukmann 3.(J)/LG 2 SB-2 - - 4
17-7-1941 Hptm. Franz von Werra Stab I./JG 53 I-153 - 17.50 11

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

18-7-1941 Oblt. Erbo von Kageneck 9./JG 27 DB-3 E. Demidow 13.29 27
18-7-1941 Gefr. Peter Bremer 2./JG 54 I-18 - 07.25 2
18-7-1941 Gefr. Rudolf Gerecke 2./JG 54 SB-3 - 16.46 3
18-7-1941 Ofw. Karl Fuchs 2./JG 54 SB-3 - 13.52 5
18-7-1941 Uffz. Herbert Broennle 2./JG 54 I-16 Rata - 18.31 7
18-7-1941 Ltn. Hans-Leopold Henkemeier 1.(Erg)/JG 54 DB-3 75km NW Riga 13.20 1
18-7-1941 Ofw. Erwin Kortlepel 4./JG 3 I-16 10km S. Rozyn 14.00 12
18-7-1941 Uffz. Kuno Bälz 4./JG 3 I-16 10km S. Rozyn 14.01 3
18-7-1941 Uffz. Fritz Tegtmeier 2./JG 54 I-18 - 13.54 4
18-7-1941 Oblt. Gerhard Wengel Stab I./JG 54 I-18 20km SE Narwa 20.03 1
18-7-1941 Uffz. Alfred Kromer 9./JG 54 Pe-2 - - n.b.
18-7-1941 Uffz. Paul Eberhardt 7./JG 52 MBR-2 70km E. Kostanza 17.50 3
18-7-1941 Uffz. Paul Eberhardt 7./JG 52 MBR-2 70km E. Kostanza 17.50 4
18-7-1941 Ltn. Josef Pöhs 5./JG 54 I-16 - 04.32 22
18-7-1941 Uffz. Günter Range 5./JG 54 I-16 - 04.32 2
18-7-1941 Ltn. Josef Pöhs 5./JG 54 I-16 - 04.45 23
18-7-1941 Oblt. Hans Philipp 4./JG 54 I-18 - 09.00 39
18-7-1941 Oblt. Hans Philipp 4./JG 54 I-18 - - 40
18-7-1941 Oblt. Hans Philipp 4./JG 54 I-18 - 14.55 41
18-7-1941 Ltn. Josef Pöhs 5./JG 54 I-18 - 16.25 24
18-7-1941 Major Günther von Maltzahn Stab/JG 53 SB-3 - 12.05 37
18-7-1941 Major Günther von Maltzahn Stab/JG 53 SB-3 - 12.08 38
18-7-1941 Oblt. Hans-Joachim Heinecke Stab/JG 53 SB-3 E. Shitomir 12.11 7
18-7-1941 Ltn. Walter Zellot 1./JG 53 Pe-2 S. Wassilkow 04.50 7
18-7-1941 Fw. Ludwig Reibel 1./JG 53 Pe-2 N. Wassilkow 04.50 5
18-7-1941 Fw. Heinrich Leschert 3./JG 53 SB-3 - 12.03 4
18-7-1941 Hptm. Franz von Werra Stab I./JG 53 SB-3 - 12.03 12
18-7-1941 Ltn. WolfgangTonne Stab I./JG 53 SB-3 - 12.08 13

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

19-7-1941 Oblt. Erbo von Kageneck 9./JG 27 DB-3 W. Jarzewo 18.20 28
19-7-1941 Oblt. Georg Ruland 3./JG 54 I-16 Rata - 18.31 -
19-7-1941 Oblt. Georg Ruland 3./JG 54 E/a - 20.48 -
19-7-1941 Oblt. Georg Ruland 3./JG 54 E/a - 20.57 -
19-7-1941 Ltn. Hans-Leopold Henkemeier 1.(Erg)/JG 54 I-18 Insel ösel 17.45 2
19-7-1941 Uffz. Otto Fischer 1.(Erg)/JG 54 I-15 7km NW Arensburg 19.24 1
19-7-1941 Ltn. Walter Nowotny 1.(Erg)/JG 54 I-15 7km NW Arensburg 19.24 1
19-7-1941 Ltn. Walter Nowotny 1.(Erg)/JG 54 I-15 7km NW Arensburg 19.25 2
19-7-1941 Ofw. Franz Blazytko 9./JG 27 Pe-2 W. Rudnja 17.55 11
19-7-1941 Ofw. Franz Blazytko 9./JG 27 Pe-2 W. Rudnja 17.56 12
19-7-1941 Ltn. Walter Nowotny 1.(Erg)/JG 54 I-15 7km NW Arensburg - n.b.
19-7-1941 Ltn. Horst Hannig 6./JG 54 I-18 - 06.20 8
19-7-1941 Oblt. Wolfgang Späte 5./JG 54 DB-3 SW Mschinskaja 17.30 15
19-7-1941 Oblt. Hubert Mütherich 5./JG 54 I-18 - 19.08 25
19-7-1941 Oblt. Wolfgang Späte 5./JG 54 I-18 NE Wloschowo 19.08 16
19-7-1941 Hptm. Franz Eckerle 6./JG 54 SB-2 - 20.45 16
19-7-1941 Hptm. Franz Eckerle 6./JG 54 SB-2 - 20.46 17
19-7-1941 Oblt. Karl-Friedrich Schlossstein Z./JG 77 I-16 - - 1
19-7-1941 n.n. IV./JG 77 E/a - -
19-7-1941 n.n. IV./JG 77 E/a - -
19-7-1941 n.n. IV./JG 77 E/a - -
19-7-1941 n.n. IV./JG 77 E/a - -
19-7-1941 Oblt. Gerhard Michalski Stab II./JG 53 R-5 - 17.25 15
19-7-1941 Hptm. Walter Spies Stab II./JG 53 R-5 - 17.27 3

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Thanks again Maxim,

Can I ask what your source(s) is for this..is it Prien?
Thanks
Oquaig

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Jim Perry's claims lists based on Prien's JFV and some other sources.

Jim Perry published his lists on well-known Tony Wood's page but it seems that the link is dead now.

20-7-1941 Fw. Erich Wassermann 7./JG 27 I-153 Dorogobush 09.35 2
20-7-1941 Ofw. Franz Blazytko 9./JG 27 I-153 ENE Jarzewo 06.50 13
20-7-1941 Oblt. Erbo von Kageneck 9./JG 27 DB-3 SE Jarzewo 07.15 29
20-7-1941 Fw. Ernst Riepe 9./JG 27 DB-3 NE Jarzewo 07.17 4
20-7-1941 Gefr. Herbert Ritter 9./JG 27 DB-3 E. Jarzewo 07.23 1
20-7-1941 Ltn. Hans Götz 1./JG 54 SB-3 - 10.25 7
20-7-1941 Oblt. Johann Knauth 10./JG 51 ZKB-19 - 08.55 9
20-7-1941 Ofw. Heinrich Hoffmann 12./JG 51 DB-3 - 17.10 22
20-7-1941 Ltn. Erwin Fleig 1./JG 51 DB-3 Smolensk 17.10 25
20-7-1941 Oblt. Erbo von Kageneck 9./JG 27 DB-3 SE Jarzewo - 30
20-7-1941 Major Günther Lützow Stab/JG 3 V-11 - - 41
20-7-1941 Major Günther Lützow Stab/JG 3 V-11 - - 42
20-7-1941 Fw. Ernst Heesen 2./JG 3 I-15 SW Buzowka 13.50 9
20-7-1941 Uffz. Heinz Küpper 2./JG 3 I-15 10km SW Buzowka 13.50 5
20-7-1941 Ltn. Eberhard Bock 3./JG 3 DB-3 1km E. Buzowka 16.05 21
20-7-1941 Oblt. Georg Michalek 4./JG 3 I-153 - 15.40 13
20-7-1941 Oblt. Franz Beyer 8./JG 3 I-17 - 18.45 24
20-7-1941 Fw. Gotthard Glaubig 8./JG 3 I-17 - 18.45 6
20-7-1941 Ofw. Ernst Quasinowski 6./JG 52 SB-3 - 09.55 3
20-7-1941 Oblt. Hans Philipp 4./JG 54 I-18 - 14.30 42
20-7-1941 Oblt. Hubert Mütherich 5./JG 54 I-16 - 17.45 26
20-7-1941 Ltn. Hans Beisswenger 6./JG 54 I-18 - 18.50 11
20-7-1941 Major Günther von Maltzahn Stab/JG 53 I-15 - 17.49 39
20-7-1941 Oblt. Wilfried Pufahl Stab/JG 53 V-11 - 17.50 5
20-7-1941 Ltn. Franz Schiehs Stab/JG 53 I-15 - 17.52 9
20-7-1941 Uffz. Hans Esser 5./JG 77 MiG-3 - 10.50 7
20-7-1941 Uffz. Hans Esser 5./JG 77 R-10 - 11.05 8
20-7-1941 Oblt. Walter Höckner 6./JG 77 Pe-2 - 11.57 -
20-7-1941 Fw. Rudolf Schmidt 5./JG 77 MiG-3 - 18.43 20
20-7-1941 Uffz. Hans Esser 5./JG 77 R-10 - - n.b.
20-7-1941 Fw. Wilhelm Baumgartner 9./JG 77 Pe-2 - 17.38 6
20-7-1941 Ofw. Reinhold Schmetzer 8./JG 77MiG-3 - - 20

21-7-1941 Ofw. Franz Blazytko 9./JG 27 Pe-2 ENE Cholm 04.43 14
21-7-1941 Oblt. Günther Scholz 7./JG 54 SB-3 - 20.55 20
21-7-1941 Fw. Karl-Heinz Kempf 7./JG 54 SB-3 - 20.57 13
21-7-1941 Uffz. Günther Fabian 7./JG 54 SB-3 Ssoltzy 21.00 2
21-7-1941 Ltn. Hans-Werner Paulisch 8./JG 54 DB-3 - 18.58 2
21-7-1941 Fw. Walther Nuhn 8./JG 54 DB-3 - 19.01 2
21-7-1941 Oblt. Georg Michalek 4./JG 3 I-153 - 18.45 14
21-7-1941 Oblt. Franz Beyer 8./JG 3 I-16 15km NE Beleja Zerkow 10.47 25
21-7-1941 Ltn. Ivo von Lubich 6./JG 51 E/a - - 5
21-7-1941 Ltn. Ivo von Lubich 6./JG 51 E/a - - 6
21-7-1941 Ltn. Ivo von Lubich 6./JG 51 E/a - - 7
21-7-1941 Fw. Richard Quante 6./JG 51 E/a - - 6
21-7-1941 Fw. Richard Quante 6./JG 51 E/a - - 7
21-7-1941 Fw. Richard Quante 6./JG 51 E/a - - 8
21-7-1941 Fw. Heinrich Lülwes 5./JG 51 E/a - - 1
21-7-1941 Hptm. Erich Woitke Stab II./JG 52 DB-3 - 15.00 15
21-7-1941 Ltn. Adolf Dickfeld 7./JG 52 SB-2 Donaumündung bei Sulina 15.15 3
21-7-1941 Fw. Bruno Wickert 7./JG 52 SB-2 Donaumündung bei Sulina 15.15 2
21-7-1941 Oblt. Hans Philipp 4./JG 54 I-18 - 04.05 43
21-7-1941 Oblt. Hubert Mütherich 5./JG 54 I-18 - 14.57 27
21-7-1941 Major Hannes Trautloft Stab/JG 54 SB-2 Waluj 21.00 18
21-7-1941 Oblt. Karl-Friedrich Schlossstein Z./JG 77 SB-3 - - 2
21-7-1941 Ofw. Karl Munding Z./JG 77 SB-3 - - 1
21-7-1941 Oblt. Felix-Maria Brandis Z./JG 77 SB-3 - - 4
21-7-1941 Uffz. Herbert Rollwage 4./JG 53 SB-3 NE Dno 21.03 3
21-7-1941 Uffz. Wilhelm Rohlff 6./JG 77 Convoy - 15.05 -
21-7-1941 Oblt. Heinrich Setz 4./JG 77 I-16 - 19.16 7
21-7-1941 Oblt. Heinrich Setz 4./JG 77 I-16 - 19.18 8
21-7-1941 Ltn. Joachim Deicke 4./JG 77 R-5 Soroki 19.20 1
21-7-1941 Oblt. Kurt Ubben 8./JG 77 I-61 - 12.38 17
21-7-1941 Ofw. Erwin Riehl 9./JG 77 MiG-3 - 17.32 13
21-7-1941 Ofw. Erwin Riehl 9./JG 77 MiG-3 - 17.34 14

That's all.

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Thank you Maxim,
I found the Tony Woods web site you mentioned but it is not as complete as your list.

http://don-caldwell.we.bs/claims/tonywood.htm

The odd thing about it is that it does not list any of Werner Moelders kills, his name is not even listed...and a ZKB-19 what the heck is that ?

Thanks much
Oquaig

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Tony Wood compiled his lists from the OKL microfilms which have many gaps. But now you can download a far more complete Jim Perry's lists (the link is on the top of the page).

ZKB-19 is just a misidentification. ZKB (TsKB) means 'Tsentralnoye Konstruktorskoye Byuro' (The Central Design Bureau).

See here:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/I-17/tskb-19.html

Re: Question about Jagdgeschwader claims for July 1941
 

Thank You Again Maxim1,

Actually I was reading up on "ZKB-19" this morning. It was the Polikarpov I-17. I saw several other "I-17" claims for July 1941 but I sort of assumed they were MiG-3s. although to me it more closely resembles the LaGG-3. The only units flying MiGs were the 401st IAP and probably the 160th IAP that inherited the last MiGs from 41st IAP on July 4 before it was withdrawn from the front. No one was flying LaGGs in West Front in July. SB-3s I determined to "SB-2bis", the older SB-2s had the flat radiators whereas the SB-2bis was using M103 inline engines and scoop radiators, like the AR-2 (aka SB-RK), but the AR-2 has the new He-111 nose. I know for certain the "V-11" -the Vultee V-11, which bears a striking p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Times; }div.Section1 { page: Section1; } resemblance to the Su-2,and the Soviets bought examples from the US and built a few with a License-is actually the Su-2, although certain now famous authors still want to believe it is a IL-2.

As for Jim Perry's list...well the first time I looked at it, it started with claims for 1944. One has to scroll a long way down to get to 1941. Thanks for making me look again! And thanks for all your other help as well.

Oquaig