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Defected Allied Pilots?
It is well known, that several German pilots defected early or later in the war to Allied countries or occupied zones. I have now read about the sole US-pilot Martin Monti to defect to Germany (via Italy).
Were there any pilots from other Allied air forces who did the same? And if so, what was thir fate in or after the war? Thanks in advance Robert |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
One of them was Czechoslovak pilot Augustin Přeučil. As pre-war Czechoslovak military pilot he tried to go to Poland after occupation of rest of Czechoslovakia on March 15 1939, but he was captured by Gestapo and later say OK for collaboration. He managed to escape to Poland once again but this time with Gestapo assistance. He became part of Czechoslovakian exile unit in Poland, them France and finally at Great Britain. He became member of 310. Squadron and defected in 1941 with Spitfire by training flight as member of 55th OTU. His Poland pupil thought he had crashed in sea. But he flew to Belgium where landed nearby some farm. Farmer helped him but Přeučil later told his name to gestapo. Prague Gestapo used him as source of information about Czechoslovakian pilots in Great Britain. Traitor Přeučil was executed in 1947.
I know as well about some Romanian pilots which defected to Germans in 1945 when ARR pilots fought with Allies. Soviet pilots as well many times defected to Germans. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
There is at least one case of a Soviet pilot defecting in early 1942, detailled in Black Cross Red Star vol 2.
In January 1943, two French pilots deserted while their squadron was flying from Morroco to Tunisia to be engaged alongside the Allied forces. They left the formation together and flew to occupied France. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Many thanks Michal and Laurent, interesting stories.
Does anybody know about RAF-pilots (or SAAF/RNZAF/RCAF) who defected to Germany? |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hi,
Sgt Preucil defected 18/09/41 in Hurricane Mk.I, W9147, PA-A of the 55 OTU. From Usworth to Bastogne. He was a member of the 43 Sqn in late 1940 and No.605 Sqn till 26/08/41. Regards, Michal |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Without checking my books there was a 234 sqn Spitfire pilot in 1940 who landed mysteriously in France . . .and a Spitfire pilot (Canadian??) who flew off a carrier to re-inforce malta and disappeared . . .will get back to you.
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Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
In the book "Oberst Hermann Graf" (200 Luftsiege in 13 Monaten), written by Berthold K. Jochim, at page 207 en 202 the writer is mentioning the unit JG50 at Wiesbaden. In this "Versuchskommando für Höhenflug" was flying a Dutchman. This pilot "Jan" has, according to the writer, flown a British a/c from Great Britain to Germany. Although there was flying a Dutchman Jan de Vliegher in JG 50 he did not joined the Luftwaffe via Great Britain!!
Jaap Woortman |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Re the Malta flight: I believe you are thinking of the American pilot who diverted to Algeria after complaining of engine problems, then tried to con the Vichy authotities into believing he was a US civil pilot.His RAF/RCAF colleagues had some doubt about this story, but after Operation Torch he did re-enlist in the USAAF and fly combat missions in the Med. theatre. So it shouldn't be counted as a defection to the other side in any way.
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Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hello Graham,
Re the "Malta Carrier Flight" Deserter. (Don't get upset by the word I use because it is just that to me. He flew off and left his fellow pilots who flew to Malta to fight the foe, who knows if he had stayed with them some RAF lives might have been saved). From the photo of the group he stands out in that he is definately undisiplined when compared with the other pilots in the group. So something was amiss even when the photo was taken. At least that's what the photo say's to me. Where did you get the info that he re enlisted and fought in the USAAF in the Med ? I would have thought the RAF would have wanted him back to answer some questions re the loss of an expensive and needed aircraft. I have read elswhere that he was returned to the States after the event. Thank you Alex |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hallo all,
I basically agree with Graham's comments on the American pilot who, in some sources, is reputed to have defected to Vichy French North Africa. Firstly I do not believe he defected. I have been researching this pilot for some time, in conjunction with Hugh D. Dow. Hugh, a renowned pilot, was a squadron colleague of this man for about a year and so knew him quite well. The pilot in question was Salvador B. Walcott. In early 1942 as a young newly-trained Sergeant pilot in the RCAF he was assigned to 603 Squadron RAF. They soon left for duty on Malta on board the aircraft carrier USS Wasp. According to a debriefing statement made out in November 1942 his Spitfire had engine trouble soon after take-off on 20 April 1942. He attempted to follow the others but fell behind. Later he flew close to a small yacht or boat and almost at once his engine began to issue black smoke. At this point he turned towards the African coast. He force-landed his Spitfire inland from the coastal town of Setif in Algeria, and was rendered unconsious for a time. Coming to he found himself surrounded by French troops and police. Later he was taken back to the wrecked Spitfire where a number of bullet holes were pointed out to him. He claimed to be an American ferry pilot to his captors. Walcott was sent to Lagouat prison camp in the Sahara. In July 1942 he escaped. Rearrested later in another town he was interrogated again and claimed to be a US ferry pilot once more. This did not work and he was returned to Lagouat, receiving 16 days confinement in the cells for his troubles. He was part of another failed escape attempt in October 1942 when one of his fellow would-be escapees was shot dead. After Operation Torch in November 1942 he and his colleagues were released and returned to the UK. He was interviewed by various agencies and none of the statements or interviews contain any hint of wrongdoing on his part. Very soon after this Walcott left the RCAF and was commissioned in London into the USAAF as a 2/Lieutenant. In December 1942 he was assigned to the 346th Fighter Squadron, 350th Fighter Group, then flying Bell P-39 Airacobras. He travelled by ship with the ground echelon back to North Africa to rejoin the rest of his unit, arriving in Algeria on 1 February 1943. Fron then until late December 1943 he flew many missions. Hugh Dow recalls him for his competance in carrying out his job. He showed no lack of courage and was if anything a risk taker according to Hugh, always "pushing out the envelope". Hugh believes his experiences during 1942 in North Africa caused him to mature and become more responsible. Walcott fell ill in late December 1943 and was returned to the USA. He recovered and stayed on in the USAAF/USAF postwar. Very little is known of his subsequent career. He had reached the rank of Captain by 1946 and reputedly became a helicopter pilot. He died in 1962, killed in a helicopter crash. At the time of his death his home address was in Lennox, Massachusetts. The story of his alleged desertion appears to stem from THE AIR BATTLE FOR MALTA by Lord James Douglas Hamilton (1981). At least two more subsequent books, including one by Chris Shores, seemed to base their versions of the incident on this source. I contend that what evidence there is does not support any suggestion that he was a coward or a deserter. Far from it. Why would he bother making 2 escape attempts if he wanted to desert and avoid the war ? Or later re-enlisting in the USAAF ? I hope the above begins to unravel what I believe to be a very unjust and incorrect version of the story. Regards, Martin Gleeson. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Thank you, Martin, for a fuller account. One point you don't mention is the story, reportedly from a fellow-pilot, that before the launch Walcott had said outright that he was not going to go to Malta. Another version of the story is that he had claimed undercarriage problems (I think this is in Cull's new book Spitfires Over Malta), as opposed to most versions which say engine problems. I do wonder where these bullet holes could have come from, as these were brand-new aircraft. Itinerant tribesmen?
I doubt that we will ever find the truth of this matter, but I feel that if he was at fault in 1942 then he redeemed himself later. Either way, it was not a defection. Desertion, maybe. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hallo Graham,
Thank you for your reply. I do agree when you state that we will (probably) never know the entire truth of this story. However we can but try ! I am not a 'legal eagle' but I have concerns about the issue of one of Walcotts fellow pilots, F/Sgt. Buckley, stating that Walcott told him that he was not going to Malta. At first sight it is very damming and I am not disregarding it to suit my argument. The most detailed version of this that I have seen was published in MALTA: THE THORN IN ROMMEL'S SIDE by Laddie Lucas (1992). The source appears to be the same as that used by Lord James Douglas-Hamilton ie. Tony Holland, ex-603 Squadron. It is written when David Douglas-Hamilton (the 603 Sqn. C.O. at the time) enquired of Buckley on this matter that Buckley told him what Walcott is reputed to have said. However Buckley never went to Malta either ! Therefore how could D D-H have obtained this information ? Tony Holland himself only picked up various accounts of Walcott's time as a prisoner after he returned to the UK. Re. the undercarriage problem. This only occurred when Walcott attempted to land on a highway in North Africa, but one wheel would not lower. So he decided instead to land near the road. This information comes from his debriefing statement of late November 1942. I plan to buy Brian Cull's new book in the near future, especially to see what he has to say on Walcott. Hugh Dow has told me that he contacted Brian Cull after reading MALTA: THE SPITFIRE YEAR in order to set the record straight on Walcott. Hugh said Brian Cull promised to review the matter in SPITFIRES OVER MALTA. Re. the bullet holes. Again according to his debriefing statement Walcott was pulled unconscious from the Spitfire by French troops. Presumably a guard was placed immediately on the plane. He was taken to a house three quarters of a mile away. When he came to he was brought back to the plane where he was shown the 'm.g. strikes'. He was not aware of being fired on by the boat that he passed close to, but he presumed it had done so after seeing the bullet holes. While it is clear that Walcott was an unusual character in some ways I still believe that he did not defect or desert. I fully accept too that his debriefing statement is his side of the story and as such can of course be used to push a certain line. Best wishes for now, Martin Gleeson. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Cull tells the story in the text with only four lines, referring to the Buckley report. A footnote then directs you to another ten lines (in smaller print) quoting the fuller story as passed on by, and credited to, Dow. However, it does specifically say that the diversion was because he was unable to retract the undercarriage and thus (correctly) feared overheating the engine.
It is interesting to note that Buckley did not go to Malta this trip, but there will have been some kind of enquiry about Walcott's disappearance, and his story would have become public knowledge then. I don't see any reason to doubt the story on that ground, though whether he was the actual informant may be queried, perhaps. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hi guys
I have just joined your honourable guild of aviation experts and hope that I will be able to add something to your discussions from time to time. I am the author of SPITFIRES OVER MALTA and get the feeling that some flak may be directed my way! Fire away! |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Quote:
Dénes Bernád Author |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hallo all,
Hmmm! Very interesting Graham. The details I quoted concerning the engine trouble and undercarriage problem appear, in that order, in Walcott's debriefing statement of 23 November 1942 to the RAF. The version that Hugh Dow has given to Brian Cull is even more likely and completely believeable for the following reason. This version could well be what Walcott told Hugh Dow during the year they served together. It would be totally in line with Walcott's character to embelish a perfectly good story for more dramatic effect (ie. the debriefing statement). I believe Hugh would go along with this interpretation. Consider this. If one's undercarriage would not retract after take off, then obviously one could not fly to Malta or land back on the aircraft carrier. Ditching would be risky. The most sensible course of action would be to fly to the nearest land especially when it was only 55 miles away. This would not normally cause any blame to be attached to the pilot (in my opinion). Other RAF aircraft and crews had been forced to land in French North Africa from 1940 to 1942. I have never heard of any suspicion or sanction attaching to these crews. I can only imagine once it became known Walcott was a prisoner of the French that some enquiries were made, but I would not have expected much beyond that. After all hundreds of aircraft were lost every month by the RAF. Our problems, as researchers today, often arise because the wartime RAF had no time or resources to probperly investigate each loss. By the way I must alert Hugh Dow to this thread and hopefully he will add to or correct the preceding entries on 'Bud' Walcott (as he was universally known). I am glad to learn SPITFIRES OVER MALTA is available. I await with great interest the next contribution by 'AUTHOR'. I have questions certainly, but no flak ! Regards for now, Martin Gleeson. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Gentlemen,
many thanks for this most informative thread. Quote:
Sorry, I don't know the "mechanisms" on a carrier. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
hello Martin,
55 miles from the North African coast . How far from Malta ? Alex |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hello
Spitfire didn’t has an arrester-wire hook that could grip one of the carrier’s arrester-wires. Also it lacked the strengthenings made in Seafire. I think that it was possible to land a Spitfire to a carrier but it was difficult and risky and it is entirely possible that the carrier’s “batman” would have denied the permission to even try the landing . |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Juha, thanks for this, completely logic :)
It didn't come to my mind that a plane taking off from a carrier not necessarily has an arrester hook..... |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
It was certainly an awful lot further to Malta than 55 miles, hence the additional belly fuel tank. My apologies for not looking it up but try ten times as far, as a rough estimate.
It is worth pointing out that at least two Spitfires were landed back on the aircraft carriers after launching for Malta - one indeed on the Wasp that very trip. Another was landed on Indomitable during the early stages of Pedestal. An earlier example, of course, was the recovery of 43 Sq's Hurricanes from Norway onto Glorious. A shame the Kriegsmarine intervened later. However, this was certainly a difficult piece of flying and not to be attempted if there was some doubt about the undercarriage. By itself, this would be no reason to cast doubt upon the pilot involved. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hallo,
Robert, Sorry for causing some confusion re. the undercarriage problem. Again using Walcott's debriefing statement of 23 November 1942, though this refers to his initial attempt to land on the highway in North Africa, he states only one wheel came down when the undercarriage was lowered. Even if his two wheels failed to retract after take off and stayed down Walcott had no training or experience in landing on an aircraft carrier - or taking off for that matter ! Neither did any of the other pilots. Alex, 55 miles from the Algerian coast and 660 miles from Malta. This from MALTA: THE SPITFIRE YEAR 1942, page 201. Regards, Martin. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
IIRC none of the 10 46 Sqn pilots (Graham, my recollection is that the sqn was 46 not 43) who all landed their Hurricanes successfully onto carrier HMS Glorius off Norway in May 40 had any prior experience on carrier landings. And same goes to the 10 263 Sqn pilots who did the same with their Gladiators on same day. OK, Gladiator was probably easier to land on carrier than Spitfire. And as Graham wrote some did the feat during Malta ops. But as I wrote earlier that is probably beyond normal call of duty.
Juha |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
46 is correct: my apologies. I'd like to blame typing rather than memory.....moral is "always check".
|
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hello,
Thank you ALL for the very good thread that this has turned out to be. For once it has not gone into the more often diatribe of personal views and claims and blames. Well done chaps, and thank you for clearing up one of the odd stories that has been out there for a while re this Spitfire pilot Walcott. Have I missed it in the threads or does anyone know which units he served with in the USAAF? Alex |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hi guys
I am having trouble posting messages/replies! Hope this one reaches the parts others have by-passed! Martin has summed up the Bud Walcott affair correctly, and I trust that the entries in SPITFIRES OVER MALTA are acceptable. The big mistake in the original MALTA THE SPITFIRE YEAR is that I assumed Walcott had been court-martialled, whereas he was promptly transferred to the USAF on his return to UK following his release from Vichy hands. Another American in the RAF, my dear friend Leo Nomis similarly escaped a court-martial after he had 'borrowed' a Spitfire while based at Malta, and set out to strafe targets in Sicily at night! A completely unauthorised flight! He was ordered over the radio to return and was promptly arrested on landing back at Malta. His punishment - he was sent to Egypt forthwith, there to join the elite 92 Spitfire Squadron! Leo passed away a couple of years ago but not before I had helped him write his memoirs. I have a few copies available at a resonable price. It is called THE DESERT HAWKS. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Alex: it was the 346th FS.
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Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hallo all,
Glad to have helped on Walcott. As noted in my first post he was commissioned into the USAAF in London very soon after his return to the UK. He was assigned to the 346th Fighter Squadron, 350th Fighter Group in December 1942. As he was the newest pilot - there may not have been time for him to even test a P-39 - he along with another pilot and some ground crew travelled by ship to North Africa. They reached Algeria on 1 February 1943. Walcott stayed with this unit until late December 1943 when he contacted some disease/illness which left him temporarily blind. He was sent back to the USA only at this point. Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea which units he served with after that, but naturally am still working on it ! Regards, Martin. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hi
I AM STILL EXPERIENCING PROBLEMS WHEN TRYING TO RESPOND OR POST A NEW THREAD - PLEASE BEAR WITH ME. I HAVE RECEIVED AN ENQUIRY RE THE PRICE OF LEO NOMIS'S MEMOIRS - IT WAS PUBLISHED AT £15.99 BUT I CAN DO IT FOR £7.50 PLUS POSTAGE. I WILL SIGN EACH COPY AND DEDICATE IT IF REQUIRED. I HAVE ONLY A FEW COPIES, SO IT'S A MATTER OF FIRST COME, FIRST SERVED! BRIAN CULL (aka AUTHOR) |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hallo Brian,
I have at least 15 books that you have written or co-authored. Can you please let us know the status of the following projects you were working on ? THE STORM BEFORE THE BLITZ TALLY HO ! (Battle of Britain fighter claims) FIGHTERS OVER DARWIN WITH THE YANKS IN KOREA, Vol. 2 THE SIX-DAY WAR IN THE AIR and anything else besides the 'friendly fire' works. Regards, Martin Gleeson. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2003/goodall060903.htm
This article mentions that six RAF pilots (including 2 Americans) flew with the Luftwaffe on the Eastern Front. They were allowed to keep their British uniforms in case of shootdown behind enemy lines. No more info. They may have been recruited while serving as POWs. And the discoverers of Preucil's story think that he might have had a sort of "mastermind" in the RAF - a fellow spy whose identity lies in classified files... http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...977780,00.html |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
I finally found an article about Augustin Preucil in an old issue of aeroplane monthly (June 2003), where his "career" in the RAFVR is laid down.
One question arises however. Why did the Czechs already knew him as a traitor soon after the war and executed him in 1947, whereas the "British" side of the story seems to be known only since a couple of years, especially as Preucil pretented to be married to a Scottish woman? I guess there must have been inquiries from Czechoslovakia to British officials. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
I am not sure when role of Přeučil was decovered but some of Czechoslovakian pilots shot down over German held territory and became POWs met him during interogations by Gestapo clerk to whom Přeučil assisted. So, I guess some evidence that Přeučil is traitor could be known before end of WW2.
As far as I know British investigators interogated Přeučil shortly after war when he could to know more about Gestopo participation in killing of escaped Allied flyers from Stalag Luft III in Sagan (Zagan). Some of escaping flyers were caught by Prague Gestapo and Přeučil assisted during interogation. And during war Czechoslovak Inteligence shared knowledges to British one. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hi Martin
Reference your enquiry regarding my future writing projects: Currently the proposed THE STORM BEFORE THE BLITZ and TALLY HO! have merged; I am still working on this. FIGHTERS OVER DARWIN should have appeared this year but I was asked by my publisher to bring forward SPITFIRES OVER MALTA to coincide with the Malta spectacular held two weeks ago, which I attended. A wonderful experience. Hopefully DARWIN will now appear within the next two years, as my main book for 2006 will be DIVER! DIVER! DIVER! - an account of fighter pilots against the V-1 flying bomb assault on the UK in 1944; Forum member Chris Goss has been assisting me with certain aspects of the V-1 campaign. WITH THE YANKS IN KOREA Volume 2 is almost ready but is being constantly updated as new material emerges from the former Soiviet Union. Possibly 2006/2007 publication. THE SIX-DAY WAR IN THE AIR is in its early stages although all three authors are working on their respective contributions. As you will imagine, this programme does not leave much spare time! A labour of love, though, which is the name of our game I am obviously delighted that you have so many of my books, Martin - now's the time for criticism! Fire away! |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hallo Brian,
Thanks for that information. I am particularly looking forward to THE STORM BEFORE THE BLITZ and Vol. 2 of WITH THE YANKS IN KOREA. Keep up the good work ! Martin Gleeson. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hello Franz,
Pity that Mr Goodall didn't give the source from which he got the info re the six RAF pilots and two Americansexcept the source of the "story". From the other leads given in the thread there seem only to have been at most seven or eight Allied servicemen, British 9 I dont recal American's being mentioned) that went to the eastern front, then only about two or three actually saw the Russians, while assisting News Reporters or such. They never reached the 30 total that would have meant they would serve as a Unit on the Eastern Front. IIRC at their peak there were only 27. There is no mention of any being in the Luftwaffe or flying anywhere that I could find. Those later returned to the UK after the war were delt with and immprisoned. Anyone know more about these Flyers ? Alex |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hi Alex
In his 1978 book CANADIANS IN THE RAF, Canadian author Les Allison tells of six Allied fighter pilot POWs - two Canadians, two British and two Americans - who allegedly flew for the Luftwaffe on the Eastern Front during 1944/45. Both Brits were killed as was one American, and all supposedly racked up substantial scores. True? Or bullshit? Brian PS I was unable to open the sites mentioned by Franz, so am unaware of what has recently been written. |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hello Brian,
Thanks for the info on the PILOTS, the other sites only give details of the Free Core which looks like it was only ARMY,and one young SAILOR also IIRC one RAF ERK. Does the book give names of the six men you note ? Alex |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Hi Alex - that's the $64 million dollar question! No names, only supposed first names - Geoffrey and Morris (the Brits), Carl and Pete (the Americans) and Al (one of the Canadians). The author of the piece (a DFC pilot but unidentified) is alleged to have told the story to the author of the book. I have my reservations. Perhaps some of our Luftwaffe experts would like to comment.
Brian |
Re: Defected Allied Pilots?
Quote:
The British volunteers did not seem to be willing to fight- instead they tried to prolong their training as long as possible (!) and some of them ended up as cooks or lorry drivers. I don't think there were any airforcemen, except Douglas Berneville-Claye, who'd been booted out of the RAF and later out of the SAS. He ended up in an Italian POW camp and then in a German one, where he was recruited by the BFC. Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Free_Corps |
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