Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Hello,

A roster of pilots and aircraft for 4./JG51 was captured in the diary of Lt. Johann Böhm who became a POW in England on 08.07.40. This lists 12 aircraft and 11 pilots. Eight of the pilot's full names and fixed service info with the Staffel can be determined from victory and loss info during 1940. However, three are not otherwise referenced with the unit in any source that I can determine: Uffz. FNU Blascyk, Uffz. FNU Bubenhofer and Uffz FNU Lebsanft (could this third one be a typographical error?).

Related to this, does anyone know specifically when Erich Hohagen joined 4./JG51 (I know what his RKT bio says). Also, Fw Willi Gasthaus is not on this roster, and knowing the date he joined 4./JG51 would also be very helpful. It was before the beginning of the Western Campaign of 1940.

This roster is undated, and I'm hoping that info about the three above people and when Hohagen joined the unit will help determine when it was drawn up.

Thanks for any help here.

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Hi, all

For some reason the name Erwin Blasczyk with a z pops into my head when reading your message, Larry.

Currently in London with only iPhone access to my data, so I cannot back this up with a reference just now.

Regards,
Andreas

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Hi, again

Possibly the correct spelling is Blaszczyk.

Btw - what kind of drugs did they give the guy that made the autocorrect system for iOS???

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Larry

This might be one of those your looking for;

Fw. Karl Bubenhofer 3./JG 51 POW 29 Oct 40

possibly changes staffels?

Regards,

Craig...

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Hello,

Both of these look like good leads. Any further suggestions or information would be appreciated.

Regards,

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Don't have anything in my 109 file for anything remotely close to Blascyk, on the other hand the name Lebsanft only appears once. Same guy?
Bf 109E-1, 4816, Bubenhofer, Fw. Karl, , I., 3., JG 51, braune, 13 +, , , 29-Oct-40, POW due to Luftkampf with Spitfires of 602 Sq. FSA., , Kanal, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IV.2, p.41; Ring, JG 51 loss list, p.45; Mason, p.465; BoB, T&N, p.703, , Gate Inn, W. Elham, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109E, , Lebsanft, Uffz. Siegfried, , I., I., Schl.G. 1, , , , , 26-Oct-42, WIA due to infantry fire., , Lfl.4/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12, , ostwärts Gratschi, b, F, , ,

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Could this guy be at 4./JG 51 in 1940:

1944-07-26, 2./JG 27, Bf 109G-6, 412 527, Bei Landelles-et-Coupigny, 28 km südlich Saint-Lô, Absturz nach Luftkampf. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Fw Blaszyk, Franz
Fw Blaszyk mit Fallschirm abgesprungen.

Matti

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Hello Craig, Jim and Matti:

Since I don't know how common these names were in Germany at the time, it is hard to know if Uffz Siegfried Lebsanft and Fw Franz Blaszyk are the people referred to. Definitely could be. It seems strange that someone (Lebsanft) who would be an Uffz in probably early, 1940, would still be one in the fall of 1942, unless he had a major setback in his career, either due to an injury or poor performance. Fw Karl Bubenhofer of 3./JG51 looks like a very strong candidate, although it seems somewhat unusual that he would be not only transferred from his Staffel (4./JG51), but to another Gruppe entirely (3./JG51) within the Geschwader. Certainly not unprecedented, however.

Thanks to all of you for your comments. I hope that we'll get some further inputs on the careers of these three people that might allow us to trace them to service with 4./JG51 sometime during the late-winter or spring of 1940.

Regards,

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Both Lebsaft (on 26 Oct 1942) and Blaszyk (on 26 Jul 1944) had EKM, which were given by 4./JG 51 (MOB-Nummer B65176).

I think, that this confirms the case.

Matti

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Matti,

Great news! I agree. If their service numbers were issued by 4./JG51, then these must be the correct people. Do you know if Kurt Bubenhofer's number also was issued by 4./JG51? That would confirm it for all three.

As a follow on to this, does anyone know when these three people transferred into, or out of 4./JG51? Since Johann Böhm, the source of the diary info, didn't join 4./JG51 until Dec. 6, 1939, according to his interrogation report, this narrows the window for the roster to after that date, and before the beginning of the WC in mid-May, 1940.

Regards,

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Hello,

As an aside to this query, the Böhm diary entry on the planes and pilots of 4./JG51, probably during early 1940, leads us to a good understanding of the tremendous losses many Luftwaffe units experienced during the Battle of Britain and related ops against Britain. Of the 11 pilots listed, none were lost in operations during the Western Campaign of May-June, 1940, but seven, including Bubenhofer with 3./JG51, were either dead, missing or POW by the end of November, 1940. The losses of trained and experienced personnel during those five months must have been devastating, but it does indicate the resiliency of the Luftwaffe training system, to have been able to rebuild the unit in time for the attack on the Soviet Union six months later.

Regards,

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Unfortunately according to my info Kurt Bubenhofer has never got EKM with MOB-Nummer B65176 (on 29 Oct 1940 he had an old EKM, maybe from the training unit). Therefore cannot confirm his case. However, besides him, I have only one Bubenhofer (first name Götz) in my database and he was killed 24 Jun 1941 in 1.(H)/31 bei Mine-explosion. I strongly believe, that Kurt Bubenhofer is your man.

Matti

Re: Seeking full names and career info on three 4./JG51 pilots circa 04.40
 

Matti,

Thanks. I agree that Uffz. Kurt Bubenhofer is probably the right man.

On another issue, normally during 1940 a front line fighter Staffel had four officers: two Oblt. and 2 Lt., although this varied all over the place depending on losses and transfers. This diary roster lists only two planes assigned to officers in 4 Staffel circa April or early May, 1940: Oblt. Josef Fözö, the StaKap, and Lt. Johann Böhm, the diary source. It is evident that Lt. Erich Hohagen was temporarily not present in the unit when this roster was drawn up, but was a third officer normally with the Staffel. So at the beginning of the WC, this gives us Fözö, Böhm and Hohagen. Do you or anyone else know who the 4th officer assigned to 4./JG51 would have been during the spring and into the summer of 1940, and continuing through the Battle of Britain? Almost certainly there would have been another one. Also, when Böhm was shot down and made a POW in England on 08.07.40, someone had to have replaced him. Who would that have been? Fw Heinrich Tornow apparently got promoted to Lt. sometime after mid-August and before mid-October, before his death on 29.10.40 (he is on the roster as a Fw), but this seems too late to be the 4th officer in the unit during the WC and early BoB, or be the replacement for Böhm, although the latter is certainly possible. No officer other than those mentioned above either scored victories or was lost from May through the end of 1940, so the mystery remains.

Who can help?

Regards,