He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

G.E. Goodman, No 1 Squadron, is credited with shooting down an He111 on 17 June 1940 over France. Can anyone confirm this combat and give details of which unit the He111 was from? What were the code/serial numbers of both aircraft? Where exactly was the dog fight?

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

possible:

He 111, n.n., 1./KG 26, 17-Jun-40, Luftkampf with enemy fighters., 1 WIA., Lfl.2/Westfeldzug, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #1)-Vol.2; Cornwell, Battle of France, T&N, p.481, zwischen Tou und Nancy, bFUffz. K. Magerkurth

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Thanks John,
Any idea what their mission was or where the combat took place? And what do all the abbriviations mean?

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

n.n.,--No name on loss record
1 WIA.,--wounded in action
Lfl.2/Westfeldzug, --2nd air fleet
Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #1)-Vol.2; material loss records
Cornwell, Battle of France, T&N, p.481,-- recent publication by Peter Cornwell and After the Battle. A "must have" if you are interested in the early air war in Europe.
zwischen Tou und Nancy,--between Tou and Nancy

bFUffz. K. Magerkurth--part of crew

Often, in the early part of the war, records are not as detailed as they were later.

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Thanks again

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

I had a look at the map. Tou can be either Toul which is very close to Nancy and so pinpoints the combat exactly or Tours which is much further away. Either way it is a very long way from where No. 1 Squadron was supposed to be, so I don't think this is the one. Were there any other He111s shot down that day? Or maybe it could have been a Ju88? George Berry took out a Ju88 the same day and was credited with an He111.

Mark.

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Well, several things affect the accuracy of such records in this time.

• First, the plane may not have come down except miles away from where the combat took place.
• Second, these early Luft. records are notoriously lacking in information.
• Third, did 1 Sq. know exactly where the combat took place? RAF records are also often sketchy.
• Fourth, the He 111 was damaged, not destroyed in the air, so, again, where it came down and is listed in the loss report may be miles from where the combat took place.
• Lastly, the only Ju-88 listed for that day was a damaged, by flak.

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Makes life difficult, doesn't it? I guess that just because we cannot find a record does not mean it did not happen. George Berry is credited with shooting down the aircraft that sank the Lancastria which was definitely a Ju88, even though he was credited with a He111. George Goodman claimed an He111 which he saw crash land and 3 airmen climbed out. That would tie up with the record you found. Also, if it was between Nantes and Tours instead of Nancy, that would put it in the right area.

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Here is the complete list of Luftwaffe losses/damaged 17 June 1940, according to Cornwell. It confirms the He111 was in combat between Nancy and Toul. Has anyone else been credited with damaging or shooting down the He111? The Ju88 has been credited probably to George Berry. The Hs126 was also at Toul, but I doubt you could mistake that for an He111.
Which RAF squadron was supposed to be covering Nancy-Toul?

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Mark,

Before we speculate further as to the identity the enemy aircraft concerned, (but as John Beaman has already correctly deduced the 1./KG26 loss that day is by far the most likely candidate), can I ask the source of the GOODMAN claim that you mention ? I do not seem to have any note of this which is why, presumably, I made no such connection in BoFrT&N.

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi Peter,
First let me say that there is no criticism implied whatsoever. Yours is a great book and very well balanced. I am actually surprised that so much accurate information is available. No. 1 Squadron, for instance, lost all their records when evacuating France and reconstructed them later, from the pilot logbooks.

Sources of the Goodman claim for He111 on 17.6.1940, among others:
http://www.jewishmag.com/126mag/geor...st_goodman.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...w2/sugar4.html
http://aces.safarikovi.org/biography/pal/goodman.html although the reference is wrong.
Men of the Battle of Britain - Kenneth G. Wynn
The family.

Some sources attribute him with shooting down the bomber that hit the Lancastria but this has clearly been shown to be George Berry.
There is a new edition of Men of the Battle of Britain in the works and I want to remove the Lancastria attribution.
I have located Goodman's logbook, but it will not be available until October so I cannot check his entry for that day.
Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Thank you Mark. No criticism suggested. I look forward to your further clarification once you have had the opportunity to check out the logbook.

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi guys

I have a note (via Chris Goss) suggesting that a second Ju88 from 3./KG30, flown by Uffz Geffken, returned from this operation with some 70 bullet holes.

Also, my notes suggest that three 'Heinkels' were claimed by Berry, Boot, Matthews and Goodman, and possibly Rutter (since he was shot down by return fire).

So, was the outcome of this action two Ju88s badly damaged with one dead and two wounded?

Another action of this period that interests me is that of 12 June over Le Havre, when 1 Squadron met He111s from St/KG54. It's not clear to me whether the Hurricane pilots claimed three or four Heinkels, although three were actually lost. I have claimants as Czernin 1, possibly Harper 1, Wissler 1 shared. Has anyone additional details?

Cheers
Brian

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Where can I find reference to the second Ju88? And to the 4 claims?
Did Goodman have a go at the second Ju88 or at the He111? And what were the targets of these aircraft? My real question is: Could Goodman have forced down one of the aircraft that attacked the Lancastria? He saw 3 crew evacuating the aircraft on the ground.

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Brian?

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi Mark

I cannot add more, sorry. Perhaps Chris Goss can?

Cheers
Brian

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Got a contact address for him?

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi Mark

He's one of ours!!

Check the members list!

Cheers

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

This from The Forgotten Tragedy, The Story of the Sinking of HMT Lancastria, by Brian James Crabb:

Peter Stahl of II/JG30 attacks one of 2 troop ships while being engaged by a Morane. No information on if he hit anything. Before attacking he sees a JU88 of another Gruppe of KG30 "shot down, belching smoke from its port engine".

Unteroffizier Geffgen of II/JG30 was shot up by a French Morane fighter and, riddled with more than 70 bullet holes, belly landed in Belgium.

Can anyone expand on these 3 incidents?

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi Mark,

I have that two Ju 88s returned damaged after operations over Loire Estuary on this day: a plane of I./KG30 was damaged in 5% but Ofw. Ludwig Edmueller was killed and a plane of 5./KG30 belly-landed at Le Culot - damaged in 10% (???).

Regards

Robert

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi Robert,

Sorry, I got my Ks and Js mixed up! The first aircraft is the one credited to George Berry as a kill. Apart from the Gruppe number your second aircraft matches Unteroffizier Geffgen's belly landing in Belgium. Are there any more details about this incident?

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Mark: You appear to be going around in circles as you have had this from me already?
Chris

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Chris,

Just inching towards clarification.
II/KG30 (or 3/KG30 or 5/KG30) sent in 14 aircraft, JU88s
Gravenreuth bombed was shot up by Berry.
Geffgen was shot up by a Morane? and belly landed on his bombs, so he did not drop any.
Stahl dropped his bombs and was not damaged.
Cruger also bombed one of the troop ships.
Some one had their port engine shot out.

If we ignore the Morane reference Goodman could have shot up Geffgen. The story is he watched them piling out of the plane on the ground. That would mean he had to be over Le Culot at the time. Is this feasible?

And I still don't know the details of the He111 over Nancy.

I just keep burrowing away like a dog with a bone until there is no more to find out.

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

I am sorry but for me there is too much conjecture and too many ifs buts and maybes. For example, for Goodman being over Le Culot in Belgium, a German held airfield, would have been a foolhardy if not dangerous thing to so. Bottom line is no German aircraft appear to have been shot down although some returned damaged by Flak or fighters with wounded or dead crew. There is nothing so far that is concrete in respect of claims matched with losses

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

I agree 100%. Without reasonable proof, I am not confirming the Goodman Lancastria story. It is absolutely not clear which aircraft he went after and if he actually hit anything. If and when I can get at his logbook, things may be clearer. Maybe not.

So at the moment I am just digging away and speculating. Sometimes that becomes repetative. Sometimes it finds that small piece of information that is the key.

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi Mark,

there were also French Ms 406 of AC5 in action. The shipping was hit by at least three - overlapping - waves of German bombers.

Regards

Robert

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Thanks Robert,

All the reports are very confused. It seems to me that the Moranes and the Hurricanes were sharing targets. Berry and a French pilot put in a claim for the same kill which was recorded as an He111 when it looks like they only damaged a Ju88. There was more than one Gruppe in action but only one seems to be recorded. I even have seen an erroneous witness report claiming that a French aircraft attacked the Lancastria! And of course the number of bombs and where they hit are disputed.
The best I can derive is that one stick of 4 bombs hit the ship in pairs and 2 more hit the sea close to the hull. None went down the funnel. Who actually dropped them is a mystery to both sides. The Germans claim heavy flak, but none of them were hit. Witnesses claim that Hurricanes were rare and Moranes non-existant, which we know is not true. All very confusing and unhelpful. I doubt the mystery will ever be solved.

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi guys

Just to add to the confusion, I am currently reading Jonathan Fenby's The Sinking of the Lancastria, and he writes:

"A Hurricane fighter flew in with the sun behind it to attack a German plane machine-gunning men in the water.... Having hit the enemy aircraft the Hurricane flew off - its pilot believed to have been George Berry.

"A survivor reported seeing the Luftwaffe plane floating in the water fifty yards from him. The crew stood on the wing as men from the Lancastria shouted 'Murder the bastards!' But one of the Germans brandished a Luger pistol, and the British (survivor?) kept away until he was picked up by a Royal Navy destroyer."

A word appears to be missing from the final sentence!

However, should this account be accurate, it would suggest (a) that the Hurricanes arrived after the sinking (b) that a Luftwaffe machine ditched.

Cheers
Brian

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Just about to read that book myself. I'm just finishing another two full of eye witness reports. So far none of them mention a German in the drink! When it comes to the aircraft involved most are contradictory as to the number of bombers, the number of bombs that hit, the attendance of the RAF, the type of aircraft etc. One even claimed that the ship was bombed by the French! What is clear is that the "British" were too busy trying not to drown to bother with a downed Jerry.

I think this report is wishful thinking as it is not substantiated by any other, British or German. There were only two destroyers around and neither reported picking up German prisoners.

There are a number of reports of one Hurricane pilot dropping his Mae West to a survivor. It would be nice to find out which pilot that was.

Mark.

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi Mark

I think the book suggests that the British survivor was picked up by a destroyer, not the German crew!

Keep digging!

Cheers
Brian

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Brian,

Yes, you can read the sentence either way, but if you take out the bracketed survivor, then the word "British" is a collective plural, so "he" applies to the German brandishing a Luger. Anyway, someone would take them prisoner or drown them. They could not let the Germans run around freely within sight of the British exodus.

I think it is probably fantasy.

Mark.

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hi Mark

Fantasy by the author? By the survivor? If so, why?

I found the following in my notes. It still doesn't prove anything but ....


Plt Off Neil Campbell of 242 Squadron wrote:

‘We covered the evacuation from Nantes and prevented it from becoming another Dunkirk. There were three squadrons at Nantes covering the troopships and with pardonable pride we kept Jerry off. One evening the wily devil sent over five Heinkels. They came over high and approached from different directions. One succeeded in diving through the clouds and bombed one of our ships but that couldn’t be helped. They glided down from a height and dived through the clouds. Unfortunately the first bomb got the ship. No.1 Squadron was on patrol at the time and succeeded in shooting down three of the Huns. One was chased, not shot, into the water. Boy, he must have been scared.’

Cheers
Brian

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Brian,

OK, "fantasy" may have been the wrong word. "Over enthusiasm" may be more appropriate. Take the quotation that you produced: It was not evening, it was 3:50 pm. There were not 5 planes but at least 14. They were not Heinkels, they were Ju88s. They did not hit 1 ship, they hit at least 4 over a period of time. Lancastria was not hit with 1 bomb, it was hit with 4, and near missed by 2 more which did damage. And there is no record of 3 Huns being shot down. There are official claims for just 1 (by Berry and the Frenchman) and we know that this aircraft was just damaged. The Germans did not know which ships they hit or if they did any damage. They did not even know exactly which unit was attacking! Depending on which version you read it was KG30/I or II or III. The official German report states KG30/IV which did not exist!

I would be very happy if the story that 1 aircraft was driven into the water. It ties up with Goodman's family story that "he hit the heinkel which bombed the ship, only this time it landed and three of the crew were seen to get out". This could easily be explained by the Ju88 belly landing on the water and the crew climbing out on the wing brandishing a Luger.

At least now we have 2 independent versions of the same story, although one is hearsay. It will take a couple more before I start to get excited. As I said I have 3 books on the subject. I am trying to get hold of a copy of Geoffrey Bond's Lancastria (1959), but I cannot find a reasonably priced copy at the moment.

The Campbell quotation is a good find. Thanks. See if you can find some more.

Mark.

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Hello,

I think that it might be helpful to have the German-researched side of this story, albeit somewhat dated by more recent research. Below is the translation of the Heinrich Weiss account of the series of actions surrounding the sinking of the Lancastria. As you can see, this was a complicated action, involving significant over-claiming of results for the German attacks. This material, both the German original and the translation, is copyright IHRA, 2007 and 2010:

"Bomb missions

In the afternoon the German planes started to attack shipping targets situated off and in the Loire River Estuary. The attacks lasted until the evening. In total four waves formed by Ju 88 units of Air Corps IV were sent off against these targets.

The first wave took off at 11.25 hrs from Merville and consisted of bombers belonging to I./KG30. Following the mission, the last bomber returned at 17.30 hrs. The crews reported results from only one attack:
1. A transport ship, estimated at 1,200 BRT, received two SC250 hits and was probably sunk.

The second wave took off from Löwen-Le Culot Airfield around 14.30 hrs. It consisted of 14 Ju 88A-1 bombers belonging to II./KG30. The last landed later at 19.00 hrs. The following successes were reported:
1. Four SC250 bombs exploded close to a warship estimated at 5,000 tons. The warship was most likely damaged.
2. A troop transport ship estimated at 30,000 BRT and fully loaded with troops was attacked in the Loire River Estuary. According to the crewman the silhouette of this ship was similar to a battleship. One SC500 exploded in the middle of the ship and second on the rear part. The ship’s stern was blown up and later the ship, according to the eye-witnesses, capsized.
3. A transport ship estimated at 20,000 BRT was hit by one SC500 bomb. It was a direct hit in the middle of the ship. A second bomb detonated close to the ship`s hull. Smoke was observed erupting.
4. A merchant vessel of 1,000 BRT was hit in the middle with one SC500 bomb. A second bomb detonated close to the ship`s hull. Erupting smoke and fire was seen. The ship sat low in the water.
5. A transport ship of 12-15,000 BRT developed a list after receiving a direct hit from an SC500 in the bow. The lifeboats were lowered.
6. One SC500 bomb hit the forward part of a transport ship estimated at 12-15,000 BRT. A second SC500 bomb exploded some 5 meters off the ship`s bow. The ship began listing and fires were seen breaking out.
7. A steamship estimated at 10,000 BRT received four SC250 hits. One of the bombs exploded close to the ship`s hull. The ship was stopped and was on fire. [end of page 849]
8. A tanker ship of approx. 5,000 BRT received one SC250 hit in the middle. A second bomb exploded 10 meters off the starboard side of the ship. Smoke and fire was seen erupting after the attack and the ship developed a list.
9. Two SC250 bombs exploded close to a medium-seized merchant ship – estimated at about 5,000 BRT.

The third wave, consisting of some crews belonging to III./LG1, took off around 15.05 hrs from Lille-Vendeville. Only one crew reported a successful attack:
1. A transport ship estimated at about 10,000 BRT was attacked and damaged. It was listing.

The last wave was formed by II./LG1 and also took off from Lille-Vendeville at 15.10 hrs. The last plane returned at 19.36 hrs.
1. A transport ship of about 25,000 BRT was damaged.
2. A merchant vessel estimated at about 8,000 BRT was damaged by two SC500 near-misses

As usual the reports by the four Ju 88 units were too optimistic. However, undoubtedly the German bomber crews were able to sink a very big ship – the “Lancastria”.
“Lancastria” (1922; passenger steamship with 1 325 cabins; 16 243 BRT; 17 knots; 168/21,5/9,5 m; built in shipyard of W.Beardmore & Co, in Glasgow; Company: Cunard White Star Ltd.; home harbor: Liverpool) was hit by at least two SC500 bombs, whilst in the harbor of St.Nazaire. The bombs were dropped during a diving attack and most likely – according to survivors (note: according to the book of Don Minterne “The history of 73 Sqn” published by Tutor Publications, Dorchester 1994, almost 9000 people were on the board of “Lancastria”. According to an article in the Daily Mirror published on 26.7.40 a total 2,823 men were lost with the ship. Also Don Minterne believed in the “tale” saying that the ship had been sunk by a He 111 bomber, which was subsequently downed over the sea by a Hurricane fighter from 1 Sqn. A similar story can be found on page 149 in the book by Michael Shaw, “Twice Vertical”, published by Macdonalds & Co. in London in 197?. In fact all engaged German bomber units were equipped with the Ju 88 and suffered no complete losses)– had hit the front hold (load room) or stack. According to Don Minterne`s book (see the footnote) the ship was hit around 16.40 hrs (DSZ – German summer time) and sank after ca. 30 minutes at position 470848N/022018 East. In September the ship's superstructures were scrapped because the wreck was a considerable navigation hazard. Today the wreck is still there because it has been declared an official grave site.
How many people were aboard? The number 9,000 was certainly too high. We have some data from Lloyd:
306 members of ship's staff
5,200 Army and Royal Air Force’s soldiers
300 refugees

We know that:
a) Ship’s crew losses:
A total of 27 KIA; 59 MIA: 86 crewmen. Captain Sharp was rescued
b) RAF losses:
Unit KIA MIA Total
73 Sqn of Fighter Command 7 31 38
98 Sqn of AASF-BAFF 13 82 95
Other RAF units 7 62 69
Total: 202 [end of page 850]
At least 288 personal losses are known. Lloyd notes that 3000 soldiers and refugees were lost, not including among the ship’s staff. Subtracting the RAF losses from this number we get some 2,825 casualties amongst army soldiers and refugees.

The number of people killed is very high, taking into consideration that the ship sank some 20-30 minutes after the attack. Of course the detonating bombs slaughtered the people gathered on the deck and there wasn’t enough rescue equipment, but e.g. the leaking fuel did not catch fire. It`s not true that the German bombers returned to strafe the survivors or burned the floating oil patches with light (?) bombs. According to Captain Sharp there was also no panic on board the sinking ship. It was really puzzling to the British Admiralty that despite the presence of numerous other ships and boats so few people were rescued. E.g. the armed trawler “Cambridgeshire” picked up almost 1000 men and also the destroyer “Highlander” took part in the rescue action. Probably due to rolling attacks by German planes, nobody wanted to risk helping the survivors.
And where were the British fighters of the AASF? Three squadrons were based in Nantes-Chateau Bougon: 1 Sqn, 73 Sqn and elements of 242 Sqn. 1 Sqn was off for its last patrol sortie from French soil at the time when two groups from KG0 attacked. Three Hurricanes led by Sgt. George F. Berry encountered some enemy bombers and he chased a “He 111” aircraft, which had bombed the “Lancastria” ship. He saw a German bomber crash in the river Loire. According to “The history of 73 Sqn” 73 Sqn carried out three patrol sorties at 04.30 hrs, 10.30 hrs and 16.30 hrs. During the last sortie the pilots saw the “Lancastria” sinking It`s hard to believe this story because, according to the same book, the ship was hit around 15.40 hrs and sank within 30 minutes – that mean around 16.10 hrs. 242 Sqn made no claims.
Actually German losses were as follows:
3./KG30 Ju 88A-1 under 5% Damaged by fighter over the Loire River Estuary and safely returned to Merville.
Ofw. Ludwig Edmüller (observer) KIA in air combat
Obg. Herbert Kraus (wireless operator) WIA in air combat
Fw. Franz Erdel (gunner) WIA in air combat

5./KG30 Ju 88A-1 ca. 10% Damaged by fighter over Loire River Estuary and belly-landed at Louvain-Le Culot.

Further victims of four German waves were:
2. A British steamship “Teiresias” (freighter with passenger cabins; 7 405 BRT; 13 knots; Company: A.Holt & Co./Ocean SS Co.Ltd.; home harbor: Liverpool) came from Avonmouth as part of the evacuation flotilla. It was hit by bombs about one nautical mile off the wreck buoy, near the entrance canal to St.Nazaire, and sank on June 18th at position 4707N-0223W. One crewmen out of the 71-man crew was posted missing. [end of page 851]"

I hopes that this makes a positive contribution to this discussion.

Regards,

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Very useful Larry, thanks.

It actually clarifies things if you read between the lines. First of all it clears up where the IV came from; Air Corps IV not IV./KG30. Secondly, it confirms that I./KG30 attacked the Oronsay. Most of the claims by II./KG30 seem to be for the same ship, the Lancastria. Claim 1 is the near miss on the Havelock that damaged her bow. Claims 2 through 9 are the Lancastria. Except for the extremely poor estimations of the ship's size, all the descriptions are similar: hits midships and rear or a near miss, fire and listing. The current thoughts are that the Lancastria was hit by 4 bombs and near missed causing damage by 2 more.

Again the Germans claim no losses. Considering that, at the time, they had no idea of the significance of the engagement, I am inclined to believe them. However, they also claim that they did not strafe the victims or drop flares and we know from numerous survivor accounts that they did just that. I think that George Berry's claim was automatically confirmed for morale purposes without a rigorous investigation. The German in the drink story is probably a myth.

Do you have anything on the He111 that was engaged between Nancy and Toul?

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Mark,

At present, and somewhat varying from the Heinrich Weiss account, which seems to indicate that II./KG30 Ju88s did all or most of the damage to the Lancastria, here is what the EOE Data Base has for German losses relating to this event:

"June 17, 1940: 1./KG26 Heinkel He111P-2. Returned reportedly damaged by fighters between Toul and Nancy. BF Uffz Karl Magerkurth badly wounded - admitted to hospital in Frankfurt, rest of crew unhurt. Aircraft damage state not recorded.

3./KG30 Junkers Ju88A-1. Returned damaged by flak over the Loire estuary and also attacked by F/Sgt Berry of No. 1 Squadron during armed-reconnaissance and attack on shipping off St-Nazaire 3.45 p.m. Believed also engaged by PM Barbé of AC 5. BO Oberfw Lufwig Edmüller killed, BM Fw Franz Erdel and BF Obergefr Herbert Krauss both slightly wounded, FF Oberlt Siegmund-Ulrich Fr von Gravenreuth (Staffelkapitän 1./KG30) unhurt. Aircraft 10% damaged but repairable. Possibly the aircraft that attacked the Lancastria, von Gravenreuth’s logbook noting a direct hit on a 10,000 ton transport. But other aircraft of I./KG30 were operating and also attacked shipping in the estuary, as did Oberlt Suin de Boutemard of 4./LG1. Standing patrols of allied fighters may have provided some small sense of security to troops on the vessels below but were clearly unable to prevent such attacks - as British experience at Dunkirk should have proved."

The Heinrich Weiss account and the EOE Data Base are two separate sources underlying the research underway for the EOE book project (See Permanent Post on the Luft Board). Neither have necessarily been fully reconciled as we are still in the fact gathering stage of the project for this period. I also note that we haven't yet picked up the 10% damaged Ju88 from II./KG30 in our DB. More work clearly needs to be done here.

Regards,

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Larry,

If you manage to reconcile everything it will be a miracle! They did not even know at the time what was going on.

Stahl of II./KG30 mentions a "JU88 from another Gruppe of KG30 shot down, belching smoke from its port engine". See "The Forgotten Tragedy" by Brian James Crabb. This is most likely von Gravenreuth’s aircraft, which, of course, survived. This would mean that von Gravenreuth probably is not the one who sank the Lancastria, but may have been the near miss which did damage.

It would be nice to know what the 1./KG26 Heinkel He111P-2 was doing when it was engaged.

Thanks for all the input.

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

FYI Fenby says that the pilot was Norman Hancock. http://www.bbm.org.uk/Hancocknpw.htm

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Larry, please clear some space so that I can PM you.

Mark

Re: He111 shot down 17 June 1940
 

Mark,

I've cleared some space on my PM box, so fire away.

Regards,

Larry