Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello, friends!

Well-known story:
28.5.43 Uffz Herbert Meissler (7./JG52) in Hartmann's Bf109G-4 14997 made a force landing and became a POW. He return to Germany after the war. From his words, his Bf109 had a technical troubles, nothing about battle damages.
The Soviet version was that Bf109 was damaged in dogfight and than forced by 3 Yak-1 to landing on the Soviet side. But after Meissler's postwar story this version was blamed as propaganda.

But ... just read the interrogation report in TsAMO. Meissler told that his Bf109 mission was escort of "Stuka" formation. Just before the target area (Krymskaya) the formation was attacked by 8 Yaks. One of the Yaks hit Meissler's Bf109's engine by cannon fire. Meisler made an attempt to escape to the West, but was tied by 3 Yaks [812.IAP] and forced to land. His hope was to escape [by feet] after the landing, but Yaks remained in area and had opened a fire, then he tried to escape.

So his postwar version "upgraded" the reality a bit. Sadly, his version appeared even in reputable B.Barbas's volume about III./JG52.

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

And don`t you think that he just told his interrogators what they want to hear? Frankly I don`t believe in Russian interrogation reports.

Robert

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello, Robert

You probably saw many Russian interrogation reports?

The quality of these reports differed considerably depending on interrogators, the war period, etc. From many spring-1943 int.reports of 4.Air Army only the report of croat deserter N.M. Cvikic [a rough transliteration from Russian] (15./JG52) was certainly untrue (about JG52 losses). Most of other POW gave a real picture. Info about losses of their units were in good correspondence with modern data mainly, for example. The same is about units movement from airfield to airfield (by the way, a good additional source for the De Zeng/Stankey series of books) etc. Many POWs said about their believing in Hitler's final victory. It is certainly not "what interrogators want to hear".
Conclusions of the reports were also sober mainly: "The data are good correspond with other POWs data, air recce and radio recce"; "POW didn't said all that he must know" etc.

"Frankly I don't believe in postwar stories" :-)

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

I just don`t believe in NKWD stories and Soviet propaganda.

Robert

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Why NKWD? Intelligence section (RazvedOtdel) ot the Staff of 4.Air Army (and 56.Army, 58.Army etc).

And it is strange a bit that you don't see the difference between the routine intelligence and the propaganda.
"Propaganda", really, made a show from Meissler case. Good work, appeared even in US "Life" magazine in Nov.43. The difference from many other cases was the reality of the case.

But initial message was about Meissler's own words - in 1943 and in 1949.

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Yes, yes of course not NKVD. Bullshit.
And here I can give you a good example what NKVD have made with Russians:
"Sziroka strana moja rodnaja
Mnogo w niej lesow, polej i riek
Ja drugoj takoj strany nie znaju
Gdie tak wolno dyszyt czelowiek!"
Why people hated own country? Did Meissler have a chance to tell the truth that Soviet pilots were falling from the sky like ducks? No. He did not. NKVD (or whatever) was too efficient to give him this chance. Member of my family had had this dubious pleasure to be interrogated by NKVD and he was beaten almost to dead. He did not answer any question but his interrogation protocol was full and was signed, not by him, but who cares?
Sorry I don`t believe in single word in Soviet documents.

Regards

Robert

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Andrey, when many ex-POWs from all countries recall their lives in the prisoner camp, most told a same story: despite all the brutal and illegal method used by the enemy interrogators, they sood their ground never reveal any useful information except their name rank and unit, many were hailed as hero after they returned home,but if we have a chance read their interrogation report, sometimes it told a very different story, something is simply not meant to been seen, so let it go, had they been suffered enough already?

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Many other POW pilots said the many unpleasant things (or simply about their crash-landing due to technical problem, without enemy fire), why Meissler can't say it, if it was so? For example, he said that Soviet night air raids against his airbase were low-effective (no personal casualties, 4 a/c had some damages, almost all bombs didn't hit the airfield or fell in the center of airfield, where no a/c at night). In your logic, Meissler's only option was to say about terrible losses due to night raids.

Really, intercourse with NKVD was a hard expirience.
As you probably understand, you don't know certainly, what is true:
1. He said nothing really (so signed document is untrue)
2. He said all he know (or most of he know) and signed the protocol, but said to family that said nothing (for obvious reason).
As you can guess, the 2nd version was most common. But maybe it isn't about your relative, yes.
It is off-topic, of course.

You are living in the interesting world.

Good night

Regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello, Mars!

Yes, of course. I saw interrogations reports of the German V.AK, for example. Most of Soviet POWs said all or almost all that they knows (but some real heroes were, indeed).

Return to Meissler.
The coin has a two side. What about captain P.T.Tarasov (812.IAP), who claimed a victory against Bf109? If Meissler's postwar version is true, Tarasov's award is undeserved. And vice versa.

Meissler's interrogation statements looks like a true in many details (according to modern knowledge).

I also thought that the story is simply interesting for air enthusiasts. One more fact to the well-known episode.

Best regards,
Andrey

Unteroffizier Herbert Meissler
 

Hi guys

Interesting discussion of an episode that is still rather unclear and the subject of much debate. One way that the conflicting accounts may be resolved would be by examining any existing photographs of this aircraft following the emergency landing and noting any damage to the engine cowl. If there is evidence of strikes to this area of the aircraft it would bolster the Russian version of events while the absence of such would appear to give credence to the post-war account of Meissler. Therefore, the question is if any such photographs clearly depicting the engine cowl exist? I have only seen the following two photographs of this machine as well as the ones where it is covered in white smoke during the propaganda film shooting where unfortunately the cowling is obscured. The first photograph displays the starboard side of the fighter quite well and no damage is apparent to me but it may have been taken prior to the capture or after the machine was repaired by the Russians. The second photograph depicts the possible victor Kaptain Pavel Tarasov (24 victories) being congratulated by General-Mayor Eugene Savitsky.

http://img172.imagevenue.com/loc89/t...r_122_89lo.jpg http://img209.imagevenue.com/loc25/t...2_122_25lo.jpg

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

To the topic itself:
On one of the pics, at least the rudder seems to have been hit by a machine gun bullet. Maybe there are more pictures of the A/C, on which one can see damage which came from the alleged dogfight?
Andrey, are there more interesting detaisl in this report?

PS: To neglect all information of sll soviet documents is not very intelligent IMHO. Then, one would also be obliged to NOT read a lot of modern books, like Bergström and others. I think, internal documents (like interogation reports etc) were done similarly to the ones in the Wehrmacht: Make the author look good but also don't lie, under at least slight pressure from the military-dicatatoric system.

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Bernd Barbas tried to contact him after the war in the DDR in the 1970's, but had no luck. But then Meissler himself telephoned Bernd and asked why he wanted to find him. After Bernd explained his interest with JG52 Meissler explained that he had a technical problem with his Bf109 and did not even see an enemy aircraft before his belly-landing, same thing happened to Friedrich Obleser the same day, but he managed to evade capture. Meissler was released in 1949.

Regards

Johannes

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello!

Usual unfo - mother, father, pre-war life, trainig, war life. From his words, he entered III/JG52 in the end of Dec.1942. From Feb.43 to 15.3.43 rest in Nikolajew, then Kertsch-2, then Taman. He made 60 combat missions, no successes. Info about other units (Stabstaffel, 15./JG52, his opinion about where are I. and II./JG52) etc. "Pilots mood - good". I made only abstracts from reports - had no time.

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello, Johannes!

He made a normal landing, on wheels. His other info to Bernd Barbas looks like Meissler want to change the day of 28.5.43 for himself.

Thank you for interesting info. Do you know, does Mr. Barbas write his IV.volume?

Regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Andrey,

As far as I know Bernd is working on a biography of Barkhorn right now. When that is finished he will return to the 4th volume of JG 52 which will cover Stab and the remaining Staffeln.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Thank you, Frank!
It is interesting.

Regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hi, all

I agree with yogybär on the reference issue. Use caution but do not entirely dismiss records like the one mentioned.

However - taking everything written in an interrogation report at face value is equally naive.

Both sides of this conflict used all means possible to extract information - and the disregard and disrespect to human life was notorious - I would imagine that any German soldier or pilot would expect nothing less than brutal torture, hard labour and hopefully maybe a swift death after being captured by the Soviets.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

PS!

I guess it is the same here as in other cases, it´s the enemy that you do not see that gets you. Meissler might have been in good faith as to the reason for his problems. This guy wasn´t a seasoned veteran as far as I can see?

Regards,

Andreas B

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

I was watching a Public Broadcast Show some years back on the the war on the eastern front. They interviewed a female interrogator who served at Stalingrad and showed what she looked like at that time in uniform. They letter boxed her interview in English. She stated that she had a house that she interogated the captured German soldiers. She said after she was finished she walked them out the back door and shot them with her revolver. She said that she then smoked her cigarette before going back inside. I've read the interviews of some of the POW's not all lived through the war but many thousands lived, so they were not all like her.

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Pavel Tarazov’s account on the capture of Meissler can be read from Antipov’s and Utkin’s Dragons on Bird Wings p. 36 – 7. Tarazov and one other unknown Yak pilot (not from 812th IAP), surprised a lone Bf 109. Meissler didn’t give up easily but tried several times to escape to west in spite of warning mg bursts, in the end Tarazov fired one burst at Bf109’s tail, after which the German force landed. Tarazov had tried to force Meissler to land to Tarazov’s own a/f but in that he failed. Meissler force-landed in the area of Maiskiy village. And in the photos the blades of the airscrew of 109 are badly bend, so it was after all wheels up landing even if in the photos the plane is already jacked up on its wheels.

Juha

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hi.

So the possible 'solution' to this case is:

1. Meissler develop engine problems while over Soviet held territory
2. Meissler tries to get back to his own lines despite the engine acting up
3. Two Yak's spot the aircraft of Meissler and pursue him and tries to force him to land
4. After several attempts to evade Meissler give up and belly lands his aircraft after being fired at - not in an attempt to shoot him down and kill him but as warning shots to force him down.
5. The Soviet propaganda and intelligence machinery gets moving

I guess that even Andrey must now realize that the events of the day may be closer to Meissler's own recollections than his attempts to discredit him as a liar.

That this particular case seems to support the story told by the pilot on the German side does not then mean that there was no attempts to glorify ones own history from members of the Wehrmacht. But it shows that we should all be careful not to discredit people using their name
without being entirely sure of the facts of the case.

I know from my own research both home in Norway, Finland, Germany and Russia that it is very hard for veterans of that period to be objective to what they were involved in event 70 years later, even if there are numerous examples of former foes becoming friends the underlying distrust and in some cases pure hatred is still there.

Surprisingly the most hateful pilot with regards to the Germans I have ever met was a US veteran which in the end turned out never to have flown a combat mission in Europe at all...

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hi, again

Nokose - the stories like these are of course horrifying, and when looking at the conflict known as WWII in retrospect the way we are able to do in a (mostly) free world in my opinion tends to show the human from all its worst sides.

What is incredibly disturbing is to see how thin the coat of civilization that cover the underlying beast is in a presumably normal human being. We can in my opinion not discredit all the people that commited atrocities during the war (and in earlier and later conflicts) as having a mental dysfunction, as many of them were leading a perfectly normal life before a given conflict - and that the vast majority went back to a normal life and career afterwards.

I am sure that the Soviet female interrogator and self appointed executioner later on was a loving wife and caring mother.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Yes, she might have been a loving mother and maybe grandmother but you could tell from her expression that she had still had the bitterness. Obviously something had made her that way. The show really didn't spare the western allies because it related about an American soldier who hinted at killing a Belgian civilian taking a hot meal to the Germans in the fog one morning. On the U.S. veteran that hated Germans but never served, I still see that today in a few people out here. My family fought the Germans in both world wars but I never heard any "hate talk" from them.

I find this thread interesting but I don't think that Andrey put it up out of hate but as information and a different point of view.

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hi.

Yes, I am sure that he just wanted to relate a different view, and no doubt this thread have shared more light on this specific case.

Hopefully we can come to an agreement that this chap did not intentionally lie about what happened this day, but only told the story as he experienced it.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Guys, interesting discussion, but let's keep this thread on subject. The JG 52 pilot, etc.

If you want to start a thread on WWII atrocities, etc., that's fine but do it in a new thread in the WWII in General section

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

That I guess your family are not Russian, Jews, Poles or Serbs. Sometimes you received what you gave, so we oftern say Karma is a cold blood b***h.

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello, friends!

At first: I haven't a goal to prove something for all cost; I try to establish some facts.

2nd: I hope to visit TsAMO (500 km from me) in September and try to look at some documents for the further details of 28.5.43. It was a hot day on Kuban.

3nd: I fully agree with Andreas, that:
I read dozens of Soviet and German interrogation reports (probably some hundreds) and check some of them with "normal" documents so I know that it is specific source. In "sensitive" points (for POW or for interrogator) it may contains a total lie or semi-truth. For example, some German bomber pilots said they made mostly recce flight instead of bomber raids. In "neutral" themes some info maybe a disinformation too, but % of truth is clear higher. For exampe it is info about air bases in the past. This info isn't valuable for JG52 (maybe only as indicator of truthfulness of POW's info). But it is a valuable source for less researched and less documented units.
And let's don't forget that in some cases POWs were captured with various documents (even with "personal airman's KTB" - notepads with airman's detailed diary). As POW knew that these documents on hands of interrogator, he had less freedom to disinform, even if he want it.
Return to Meissler: it isn't clear, did the info about engine damage was "sensitive" for interrogators some hours after of event, before the "propaganda machine" became it's work. Please take into consideration that interrogation report was a internal, secret document and, as they thought, NEVER available for public.

Some remarks:

Something wrong in this solution, it seems :)

Meissler not a liar, of course. He said a truth. The problem is when he said a truth - in 1943 or in 70ties. In both cases he has a reasons to "change a reality". As you see in 70ties his info (in Johannes's transition, at least) wasn't entirely correct.

The blades of the airscrew is badly bend, yes. It means that:
1. Pilot is really belly-landed
or
2. His airscrew has touched the ground because he landed not on airfield but on steppe, probably not so flat as airfield.
I don't know, what version is right, but I'll try to find in documents about it. After all, apart from "propaganda" and operative documents, the records of engineer service of 4.Air Army exists.

I read the "Dragons on Bird Wings". It isn't clear the sourse of Tarasov's story (he was killed in accident in 1944). The version has some discrepancy with operative records of 4.Air Army (2 Yaks, include one unknown, versus 3 Yaks of 812.IAP). But records of 3.IAK and IAPs remains. And at least unknown Yak established relative easily, I think (variants are few). I'll try it in September, I hope.

**************
Hello, Nokose!

The strange female interrogator is off topic, but I'll answer later. Seems unreliable in some details, but ...
What is the exact name of the show? Is it available on the net?

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hi, again

Seems that every time one tries to really get into details the number of variables defining a story is high.

What did Meissler say when?

What did Tarazov tell whom and when?

What does the photos really tell us?

John - never tried on my part to make this a discussion on atrocities - but as the main point in this thread is what is true and what is not in personal recollections and wartime interrogation reports it is difficult not to touch on the subject that all information was not obtained in a colleagual discussion over a nice cup of tea.

Andrey - really look forward to seeing everything you dig up at Tsamo, very nice to know that someone is working there, and might send you a request per pm later on

Regards

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello Andrey
the blades were bent at the roots, so probably a wheels up landing with engine running, see photos on page 38.

Juha

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Let me say that I brought up this incident to illustrate that not all interrogators were the people to do the job. Not to start an argument. The fact that some these interrogations are coming out now can clear up some of the MIA records for families. It's better to know something then nothing. I've read a few of the one's from some of M. Khazanov's books. Some of the POW's seemed defiant and others seemed to except the war was over for them but only told what was necessary.

Andrey- I don't remember the name of the person or program. It covered a lot of range for several nights on the second world war. The only thing I found on PBS TV was a show "Secrets of the dead: Deadlist Battle" a 53.50 minute documental on Stalingrad.

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

OK

I read it in Russian, series of articles in the "History of Aviation" magazine, so pages are different. About "bent at the roots" - it maybe depend from how strong the plane's nose touched the ground, for example. Or really it was wheels up landing. I'll try to find a technical description (result of engineer inspection or something like it). In all cases, it isn't desicive part of story.

OK. I'll ask the friends, maybe somebody saw it

Regards,
Andrey

Unteroffizier Herbert Meissler
 

Hi guys

The Life magazine issue of 29 November 1943 that can be viewed online through Google has a page devoted to this incident. There is a photograph included that once again shows Kaptain Pavel Tarasov (24 victories) being congratulated by General-Mayor Eugene Savitsky and in the background the aircraft in question with the damaged propeller blades alluded to previously.

http://img111.imagevenue.com/loc438/..._122_438lo.jpg

In addition, there is an excerpt from the Dragon on Bird Wings book on the 812 IAP, VVS at http://stonebooks.com/archives/061105.shtml which describes the Russian version of events quite nicely. Reading the excerpt one can deduce how both accounts came to be: Meissler was attempting to regain German-held territory following technical trouble with his machine when the Russian pilots happened upon him and were able to force him down. What is odd is that there is no mention at all of the German fighter being hit in the engine by 20-mm cannon fire as per the interrogation report in this account. Perhaps the only way to establish with certainty if the aircraft was damaged in the engine by enemy fire would be to obtain the captured enemy aircraft technical report if such was compiled and is available.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Does the photo show the actual dogfight? Or is it a staged battle?

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Andrey,

I wonder if the documents of reconnaissance sections of different VAs were reopened again recently?

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello, Nikita!

see PM

Andrey

Unteroffizier Herbert Meissler
 

Hello Rob

I am not really certain but I believe that it is a staged photograph possibly taken during the propaganda re-enactment of this event. In the photograph there is a trail of smoke pouring out of the German fighter and by most accounts excepting the interrogation report Bf 109 G-4 "White 2" (W.Nr. 14 997) did not receive any substantial damage from enemy fire but was forced down through warning shots. Here is another photograph that I came across that clearly shows the damage inflicted to the propeller blades during the emergency landing.

http://img298.imagevenue.com/loc72/t...r_122_72lo.jpg

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hi Andrey

About the IV volumn of JG52, I guess we are expecting the 13./JG52 and 15./JG52 addition, I don't know, but suspect not, at the moment Bernd is working on a book about his favourite pilot Gerhard Barkhorn, he knew im quite well and has hundreds of colour photo's, but it will also have conected information about other pilots. Barkhorn's inheritor was robed of his medals, a collector viewed them and asked if he could take them into the light outside to get a better look at them and did a runner, the police just are not interested!

I will ask about the IV volumn, I do know that he has investigated the foreign staffels as much as the regular.

Regards

Johannes

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Thank you, Johannes!

Barkhorn is interesting too, but it is a pity that the 4.volume will not appear in the nearest future

Regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Hello, friends!

Has looked at some documents in TsAMO in connection with Maissler’s case on 28 May 1943. First of all – operative reports of the whole command chain (4.Air.Army --> 3.IAK --> 265.IAD --> 812.IAP)

4.Air Army: 773 sorties (incl. 568 fighters) … in 45 dogfights shot down 54 a/c (incl. 20 Bf109) [yes, heavy overclaiming. According to GQM, we can counted 7 100% losses and 5 damaged 25%-45% due to ALL reasons. But it seems list is incomplete. For example, according to KTB StG2, 1 her Ju87 was lost and 2 Ju87 forced landed but in GQM one of forced landed Ju87 is absent] … Own losses: in dogfights – 3, Flak – 2, FTR – 20 (probably lost in dogfights mostly); damaged in dogfights and crashed on landing – 2; forced landing due to combat damages – 7 (German claims – 43 by fighter, 1 by Ju87 and 2 by Flak).
… Units involved: … 3.IAK: … 1 Bf109 was “taken into the ring” by the group of Yak-1 fighters and forced to land off Maysky, south of Slavyanskaya.

3.IAK: the case is omitted at all (probably due to error)

265.IAD: … 812.IAP not participated as a regiment, but 3 pilots (Tarasov, Kalugin, Tumanov) worked with 291.IAP. 291.IAP (3 own pilots and 3 pilots from 812.IAP) on 07:25-07:35 (06:30-06:35 German Summer Time) were in fight with 40 Ju87 and 6 Bf109 in the area of Kievskaya, H=1000 m. Claims: Churikov (291.IAP) – 1 Ju87; Tarasov – 1 Ju87 and 1 Bf109; Kalugin – 1 Ju87 and 1 Bf109; Tumanov – 1 Bf109. During returning flight Tarasov met 1 Bf109, made an attack and shot him. Bf109 made a belly landing [yes, not on wheel] off Troitskaya [this is a same area as mentioned above]. Pilot (”Miller”) was taken into captivity and delivered to the Stab of 265.IAD [An addition written by pencil: “[to] 4.Air Army”]

278.IAD (2nd Division of 3.IAK): nothing about the case in question.

812.IAP: I took it’s war diary, but there no entries between 10 May and 1 September for unknown reason. I have found out it too late to take other 812.IAP’s document. Hope to check it in future.

I took two large folders with 4.Air Army engineer’s papers but found nothing about examination of Meissler’s Bf109. Many engineer’s folders remains unstudied and it seems too much time needed to find the examination report. I’m not ready to spend more time for so “local” question but I hope the document will be found casually during researches.

So Meissler’s case looks like:
He took off from Taman airfield on 06:30 (according his words; it isn’t clear whether the Time converted to Moscow Time or not) with other 11 III./JG52 pilots with the task to escort the large group of Ju87 (60-70, according to his words). According to KTB of StG2, it’s Stukas (maybe with attached units) made 423 sorties between 05:45 and 18:10 and met “Sehr starke Jagd- und Flakabwehr” (very strong fighter’s defense and AA defense). It seems German forces divided on two groups for two targets (because Yaks were in fights with 40 Ju87 and 6 Bf109, according to their estimate). [At last moment in TsAMO I found minute-by-minute Lufwaffe aircrafts moving list according to AA department of 4.Air Army for the end of May, incl. 28.5 (radar and observers data). During the next visit I’ll examine it. It maybe useful for the reconstruction]
Then Meissler’s Bf109 engine failed temporary (due to shell or debris or bullet hit, or simply due to the technical reason – in dependence of when he said a truth), for unknown reason he has flown deeper into the enemy’s territory (the Ju87 targets were very close to frontline) and then his Bf109 was damaged (again or for the first time) by Tarasov and made a belly landing. The sole thing seems impossible: that Maissler “did not even see an enemy aircraft before his belly-landing”, as he said in 70ties.
By the way, GQM list claimed Meissler as lost in dogfight :)

Are any German pilot’s memories mention the day of 28 May 1943?

Best regards,
Andrey

Re: Meissler's (7./JG52) story and interrogation report
 

Very nice work, Andrey!

With regards to the 'missing' Ju 87, the explanation could be that the damage to the airframe was considered to be less than 10%, in which case a loss record would not be filed.

It is also interesting to note that some parts of the unit records are missing (or displaced), it just underlines the necessity to be very accurate when one is working on these claims vs losses cases, as vital records may not be available for the exact dates of interest.

Regards,
Andreas B