Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

The Miles Master II W9017 is recorded as being shot down by an enemy aircraft at night and it crashed near Cabourne Parva, Caister Lincolnshire.

It belonging to RAF College Cranwell.

Can any one tell me the name of the pilot who was killed. I believe he was Free French.

And out of interest would a Master be flying solo in the dark if it was on strength to the RAF College Cranwell?

I thought that RAF College Cranwell was a place to learn to be an officer rather than a place to learn to fly in the dark?

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

I have just found that RAFC had its own SFTS and it was actually based at RAF Caister.

So now I need to know who shot the aircraft down and of course I still need to find the name of the Free French (?) pilot.

I have read that the Luftwaffe returned to carrying out intruder ops over the UK in August 1943, for the first time since Oct 1941 but I cannot find a claim for 4th Sept 1943

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

Larry,
I've:
F/O (Fl.Instr.) Leonard F. CHAPMAN - 122374, and
P/O (u/t) Hakki AKARCAY - Turkish AF. (buried Brookwood Mil. Cem., Woking)
Regards,
Henk.

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

Both names, the Turkish airman, aged 21, are registered in the Caistor registration district in that quarter of the year.

freebmd.org.uk

Caistor vol 7a pg 592

A thread with Turkish deaths in Britain during the war.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...turkish+pilots

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

Many thanks for this info

Obviously I have been mistaken over the aircraft.

Thats whats great about this site!

However I now know the pilot I am looking for; Jean Herbert

He is said to have been lost of the east coast in 1943 but now I am not certain what aircraft he was flying but so I am told it was more likely a training flight or a training aircraft rather than on Ops.

Is there a register of Free French Airmen that would give details?

Sadly a web search shows only details of other unrelated French individuals

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

There is a a book "Aviateurs de la Liberté" that lists all Free French Casulaties - If someone dose not lookup Jean Herbert for you here.. Try RAFCommands

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

I have this book at home and will check it tonight.

For some details on the Master (in Turkish, but understandable with a web translator), see http://www.hvkk.tsk.tr/TR/IcerikDetay.aspx?ID=38

Accordin to Tony Wood files, a Lt Baak of 14./KG 2 (a Me 410 outfit used for Intruder/nuisance bombing of UK) claimed a "two-engine aircraft" at 0351 hrs (German time) on 4 September 1943 at 200 m south of Lincoln. This is coherent with the location of Cranwell and the story as told by the Turkish site that the Master was shot down shortly after taking off.

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

Larry,

Name most likely Jean Hébert instead.

On aerostories.org I found this:

"L’accueil en Angleterre et la publicité faite autour de cette évasion est à la hauteur de l’exploit, et sert à merveille la propagande alliée. Côte à côte jusqu’en 1942 , leurs parcours divergent ensuite au sein de la RAF. Le 9 juin 1943, Jean Hébert s’envole sur un Miles Master pour rejoindre son ami Denys Boudard à Cranwell : il n’arrive jamais à destination et les causes de sa disparition restent quasiment inconnues en France jusqu’aux récentes recherches de l’auteur."

Hébert was flying a Miles Master but was lost en route to Cranwell.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

"The reception in England and the publicity surrounding this escape is up to the feat, and is perfectly Allied propaganda. Side by side until 1942, their paths diverge later in the RAF. The June 9, 1943, John Hebert on a fly Miles Master to join his friend Denis Boudard at Cranwell: it never happens to and the causes of his death remain almost unknown in France until the recent research of the author. "

Can't find a Master on 9th June 1943 but there was one on the day before

8.6.43 Master 1 N7764 RAFC Cranwell Collison
8.6.43 Oxford 1 BG559 RAFC Cranwell South Collison

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

The aerostories link: http://www.aerostories.org/~aerobiblio/article2794.html

It is the review of a French book about two young French who stole a Luftwaffe aircraft in occupied France in 1941 and flew to UK. One of them, Jean Hébert, died on 9 June 1943. The other, Philippe Bauduin, is said to have known that his friend was shot down in error by Spitfires. As I have not read the book I can't say anything about this.

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

Jean A Hebert aged 23 death registered in Buckrose (which is in East Riding of Yorkshire) in 3rd Qtr 1943

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

Think it may be this incident


From

http://www.yorkshire-aircraft.co.uk/...sea/dl412.html

Reason. death registered in 3 Qtr while death in 2nd Qtr implies bodyay have been washed up on coast also Aviateurs de la Liberté
Mentions Filey in Yorkshire


Master in Filey Bay.
On the 9th of June 1943 this aircraft flew into the sea off Scarborough after encountering severe sea fret in the area. The aircraft was written off but no further details are yet known.

Pilot - Unknown, fate unknown.

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

9/6/43
RAFC
Master II
DL412

F/Sgt J Hebert FAFL, 30725, +

Training, RAF Cranwell, Took Off 13:45 hrs

Flew into sea in fog off Filey, Yorkshire. It was considered that the accident occurred when the pilot descended to establish his position, F/Sgt Hebert had also deviated from the agreed exercise.

JUNE 9TH. - FILEY, YORKSHIRE.
At 3.3 P.M. the coastguard reported that a British aeroplane had crashed into the sea off Reighton Gap, and at 3.20 P.M. the motor life-boat The Cuttle was launched. The weather was foggy, with a light easterly wind, and a slight sea. The life-boat found that the aeroplane had been smashed to small pieces, and there was no sign of any survivors. She picked up pieces of the aeroplane, a wheel, the first-aid kit and other things, and returned to her station, arriving at 4.45 P.M. - Rewards, £9 6s. 6d.
(Source: RNLI Records of Service 1939-46)

Regards
Ross

Re: Loss of Master MkII W9017 on 4th Sept 1943
 

Ross thank you so much

Thats another query sorted!

I cannot thank everyone on here enough