Did JG 23 exists?
 

Dear friends,

I have a problem.
According to Barry C.Rosch in Luftwaffe codes, markings & units 1939-1945 at page 204, there has been a JG 23. He says: III Gruppenstab formed from Stab I/KG 100 (5-44) [ post #31695]
III Gruppenstab later Stab II/JG 7(8-44)
7 formed (5-44)?
7 later 6/JG 7(8-44)?
With Bf 109.

But this was not mentioned in Kampfgeschwader 100"Wiking" of Ulf Balke. He has mentioned at page 190: Ende Mai wurde die I./KG 100 auf dem Flugplatz Fassberg in III./KG 1 umbenannt. And at page 315: Am 20.08.44 kam vom O.K.L. der erste Auflösungdbefehl für das KG 100 "Wiking".

According to Kannapin for FPnr. 31695:
(28.2.1941 - 29.7.1941) I./KG 4,
(8.9.1943 - 22.4.1944) 11.11.1943 I./KG 100,
(23.4.1944 - 24.11.1944) 10.6.1944 III./JG 23,
22.9.1944 II./JG 7,
(25.11.1944 - Kriegsende) 13.1.1945 IV./JG 301.

And Manfred Boehme in Jagdgeschwader 7, die Chronik eines Me 262-Geschwaders 1944/45 says at page 165: Völlig im Verzug war der Aufbau der II./JG 7. Aufgestellt auf dem Kommandoweg am 12. Januar 1945, wurde die Gruppe doch erst vier Wochen später, am 12. Februar 1945, etatisiert: "II./JG 7 (bisher IV./JG 54) ist durch den Gen. der Jagdflieger auf Me 262 umzurüsten."

And then, I am lost. Has there been a JG 23? Who can help?

Jaap

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Ross,

I have seen that title: JG 23: Top Guns of the Luftwaffe - Donald L. Caldwell - Hardcover - 1st ed.
But I think that's a typo. IMHO it must be JG 26: Top Guns of the Luftwaffe.
I have a soft cover version with that title in house.

Jaap

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

No JG 23, but there was a JG 17.

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Larry,

Was that a re-numbered Italian unit?
Or was this a fancy number for hiding the whereabouts of a regular unit?

Jaap

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Jaap - that was the planned 1944 designation for an Italian RSI Jagdgeschwader. I do not believe it was ever put in force, but the number does appear in the surviving planning documents as the Luftwaffe tried to set up the two additional Gruppen needed for a full Geschwader.

L.

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Guys

From where did Barry get his information about III./JG 23? He can't just have plucked it from thin air...
Even if never formed there must have been some reason to include it in his book.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

From Jaap's first post, above:
This is where Rosch got it from. Just as I did back in the 1980's, Rosch meticulously went through Kannapin extracting the units. What Rosch did not do that others have done was to go through every surviving Luftwaffe document to see if there was anything to corroborate the existence of obscure units that do not appear in other sources. Balke and Boehme probably did and came up empty-handed just as I did. Unless you or someone else can come up with a Luftwaffe planning document for a mysterious JG 23 that no one has ever heard of, then the assumption is that it was probably a typo by a clerk in the Luftwaffe's Organisations-Abt. or in the Heeres Feldpostmeister-Abt./OKH.

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Larry and Jaap !

On my believe, a JG 23 never existed, since the German terminology of naming new Geschwader doesn't fit. As you know, the naming of a Geschwader was (in the early years of the Luftwaffe) depended on the forming in the territoral boundaries of it's Luftflotte.

Each Luftflotte had a lot of 2-3 digit numbers to name the new formed Geschwader in its area of responsibility.

- Luftflotte 1 = Geschwader 1 - 25
- Luftflotte 2 = Geschwader 26 - 50
- Luftflotte 3 = Geschwader 51 - 75
- Luftflotte 4 = Geschwader 76 - 100

Well, Luftflotte 1 came up to JG 11. But there is no way to a JG 23.

It might be, that at the last years of WW II this system had been changed, but all the recent known flying Luftwaffe Geschwader fit into this system.

A JG 23 yells for further research or it is a typo-error.

All the best !

Horst Weber

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Maybe interesting to make a quote from “The first and the last” of Adolf Galland, published by Bantam in 1978.
At pag. 249 we see: “For the sake of re-establishing order within the fighter arm we introduced a complete regrouping.
The 3rd Air Fleet was changed by Göring into the Air Force Command, West.
It now comprised the replenished 2nd, 26th, 27th, and 53rd Fighter Wings.
The 5th, 54th, 51st, and 52nd Fighter Wings were fighting at the Eastern front.
The 3rd Wing was added to the 300th and 301st Wings for the defense of the Reich.
My main desire was to create a new reserve. For this purpose I brought the 1st, 16th, 11th, and 17th Fighter Wings up
to strength and reformed the 4th, 76th, and 7th Fighter Wings.”
See also a previous entry of Larry of November 1st.

Horst, also there have been made mistakes. See the renaming of the first Ju 88 unit KG 25 into KG 30.

Jaap

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Hi Jaap,

it seems a JG23 never have existed.

Here´s a well known and great page that shows all Luftwaffe units.

http://www.asisbiz.com/Luftwaffe.html

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

I did some detective work and found the following:
- In original FP Number -Book the Change Nr. 10 covers the period in question (6.4. - 9.11.1944).
- The vertical column, which contains unit designations, has for 31695 only III/KG 1 and II/JG 7 without any reference to III/JG 23. For me this is enough to ensure, that JG 23 never existed.
But still there is a question, why JG 23 is mentioned by Kannapin. One explanation could the the following:
- In the same vertical column below III/KG 1 and II/JG 7 there is the unit designation for the next FP Number 31696 and this is 14.Kp.Jäg.Rgt. 23 (L). Maybe Kannapin's (weary?) eyes have simply combined III/KG 1 and 14.Kp.Jäg.Rgt. 23 (L) into III/JG 23. The book has no printed horizontal lines between different FP Numbers, which makes reading more difficult.

Matti

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Here's another puzzle of sorts on the same theme. In the HW5 decrypts for August 1942, Western Europe section, there are dozens and dozens of references to KG 8 and KG 47. These are far, far too numerous to be a typo or anothing of that sort. The intercepts are everything from strength returns, aircraft maintenance and repair issues, to routine personnel matters to you name it. Luftflotte 3 is often an addressee along with Ob.d.L. in Berlin and various depots and schools in the Reich. These are Enigma decrypts, which the Wehrmacht believed to be secure, so why the use of non-existent units?

L.

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Hi Larry,

These kinds of signals continued in 1943 and 1944, and are usually marked as training signals.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com

Re: Did JG 23 exists?
 

Hmmm............

Thank you, Andrew, and I'm sure you must be right. My guess was intelligence spoof traffic, which was frequently used by both sides during the war.

What remains to be answered is why Bletchley Park omitted their usual "Comment" entry beneath these intercepts to explain their misleading nature. I am assuming that these are the same CXX/MSS summaries that were teletyped to Air Ministry in London and on arrival were used in part by both A.I.3 and A.I.4 to construct slightly disguised intelligence reports that were distributed to War Office, Admiralty, Fighter Command, Bomber Command, Coastal Command, U.S. 8th AAF and later USSTAF, War Dept. WashDC, British Mil. Attaché WashDC, etc. These are totally separate from the DEFE 3 Hut 3 signals and not to be confused with them.

I guess you could say that I am still puzzled on this one. One well-studied authority on this has ventured that these intercepts were intentionally disguised because the Germans suspected the British were reading their Enigma traffic, and that "KG 8" is a cover for KG 2, and "KG 47" is a cover for KG 30 or 76 or whatever.

L.