Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Can anyone confirm;
1. How was the ammunition feed arranged for the fixed winggun?
2. How many rounds were held for the winggun?

3. How was the feed arranged for the gunpack?
4. Was the ammunition drum situated in the bombbay?

Also, I noticed that Finnish Blenheims had small bombbays fitted in the wingroots. Was this common to all Mk.1's? I noticed that there was a small external bombrack fitted aft of the internal bombbay.

Thanks in advance,
regards
Edwin

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hello Edwin
all I can say that the Finnish Blenheims had 450 or 400 (depending which source you believe) ammo tray(s) per a wing gun. FAF Blenheims had one or two wingmg(s), depending on the series.

Juha

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hello
on the gun pack, the mgs in the RAF underbelly gunpack were feed from magazines in the bombbay, 500rpg.

Juha

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Blenheim Mk 1 gun pack fed from the bomb bay, bomb doors opened so that ground crew could load the weapons. Fixed on a tubular frame work inside bomb bay, units made by Southern Region Dept at Ashford, Kent in three locomotive sheds. The fixings for the four 0.303 Brownings where occasionally prone to coming loose and the guns had the odd stoppage. The worse case I've come across is 15 rounds being fired from each Browing over Norway in April 1940 whilst chasing a Junkers 88.
The belly pack was powered by starboard engine.

They carried 500 rounds for each m/g.

The forward firing m/g port wing 500 rounds.

The external bomb racks carried 20lb bombs,

In July 1940 Coastal Commands ACM 'Ginger' Bowhill issued orders to make modifications to all Coastal 'Trade Protection' Blenheim squadron. 235 Sqn added an extra m/g in the forward glazed nose perspex and also adding two Vickers in the turret.

Yours faithfully

Andy Bird

Author of the forthcoming and long awaited "Coastal Dawn"

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Andy, I may be late on this but what is the subject of Coastal Dawn?

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi John,

Coastal Dawn follows the four trade protection Blenheim squadron's 235, 236, 248 and 254 from Oct '39 to Oct '40 Drawing on contemporary diaries, periodicals, letters, logbooks, memoirs and interviews with survivors.

Publishing in July 2012, By Grub Street.

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi Andy,
Any chance of posting a photo, I am having trouble visualizing it in relation to the size of the MG fairing.
Did the bomb doors open with the fairing still attached ?
Did the groundcrew load from inside the aircraft ?
Or did just the outer doors open ? and the ground crew work throu' these from outside.
cheers
Jerry

P.S
attached only photo I found from warpaint blenheim

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

THX. Sounds interesting--an obscure part of the conflict. Good work!

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi
Just a bump anyone with any info ?
cheers
Jerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi Guys,

Have the info, re-drawing the workings in illustrator from the original drawings.

KInd Regards

Andy Bird

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi,
Looking forward to the info.
Thanks
Jerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi Andy,

I'd be VERY interested in those drawings. I posted the same question on the gun pack on a couple of other forums (or is it fora? Always get that one wrong) some time ago but you're breaking new ground by actually working from the drawings.

Looking forward to your book, too.

Cheers,
Mark

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi
Well I have finally got hold of a copy of a blenheim manual, ( but it is for a MK V ), but it does shows how the bomb doors work, so I am clear in my mind about the access, for the groundcrew to load the weapons.
I could do with more info on how the ammunition to the guns were fed, to clear it all up, were the inner bomb doors removed or modified ?
cheers
Jerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi Mark,

Apologies, recovering from an eye op, the files are on my Mac at work and am unable to link up with it at the mo.

Regards

Andy Bird

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi Andy,

Sorry to hear about the eye op. Hope you make a rapid recovery (and, no, I'm not being parochial...well, maybe just a little bit!). ;-)

Cheers,
Mark

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

just a bump

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Many thanks for the details so far - can we assume that the RAF machines also had 400-450 rounds for the wing gun?

Odd arangement, the way the gunpack being powered by the engine - are more details available?
Best regards,
Edwin

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi
Just a bump, any new info ?
cheers
Jerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi
Just a bump

any info on those drawings ?

cheers
Jerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi
a letter refering to free mounted nose guns in blenheims
http://s65.photobucket.com/user/jezb...29872199216796
cheers
Jerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi,
I noticed in the letter that one enemy aircraft was shot down by a 235 Sqn Blenheim using the "scare" gun in the nose. Is there anyone with more info about this claim?

Regards,
Peter

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Gents,
The drawings of the Blenheim Mk IV gun pack were published in the appendix of Andy Bird's book "Coastal Dawn". The book is a great read, but unfortunately, the size of the printed drawings - 2x drawings propably originally A1 size printed 2 onto a B5 page - doesn't allow for much detailed inspection. Perhaps when Andy reappears on the forum, he might be persuaded to share a low res/larger size view? One lives in hope.

Regards,
...geoff

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi Geoff,
Thanks for the info,
looks like a visit to the library is due for me, or failing that waiting for a cheap copy from one of the book sellers.
cheers
Jerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi
well they are on sale at the book depository
$24 inc shipping,
so I just have to wait for the postie now
cheers
jerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi Jerry, & Geoff,

Original drawings are in very poor condition, managed to obtain an A4 photograph. Have suggested of doing an enlarged pull out once all the H/B Coastal Dawn have been sold.

Don't know if you'd be able to view them better on the e-book version.

Kindest Regards

Andy Bird

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Thanks for taking time to respond Andy.

I'm getting myself a serious resolution photo/negative scanner for other reasons. It'll give me a chance to try scanning the page and seeing if it can shed more legible details.

I'm glad you wrote the book. It certainly highlights a little trumpetted area of fighter operations. Don't s'pose you'd care to do similar on the regular Fighter Command Blenheim Mk If squadrons?

Regards,
...geoff

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Dear all,
I recently obtained a report into the design of the Blenheim 1f gun pack.
The attached photographs were part of that report and clearly show the pack and the layout of the guns.
Regards
Gerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Great photos, thanks for sharing.


Are you able to say what the title of the report is?


...geoff

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Hi,
The report is by the aeroplane and armament experimental establishment and is dated December 1938.
The title is Blenheim L1424 - installation of 4 Browning guns.
Gerry

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Thanks Gerry.


While I've got the Blenheim books out - a few more bits of interest...

From Warner's book The Bristol Blenheim - A Complete History:
- Blenheims that served with the Aeroplane & Armament Experimental Establishment (just some partial extracts of armament trials)

Martlesham Heath (to 03-09-1939)
Mk.I
K7168 (performance & armament trials)
L1201, L1253, L1495, L8662, L8689 (armament trials)
L1424 (prototype Mk.If) ****
L6594 (performance trials and then 37mm COW cannon trials)
L6787 (twin 20mm cannon trials)

Boscombe Down (from 03-09-1939)
Mk.IV
L4838 (gunnery trials)
V6000 (H2S trials)

- Blenheims that served with RAE at Farnborough
(most of the list does not specify what purpose)
Mk.I
...long list that includes L1424

Mk.IV
L4838, L4843, L4888 (centimetric radar nose)

From Roy C Nesbit's book Coastal Command in Action 1939-1945
- caption (can't scan at present, with scanner buried under Blenheim books...perhaps later):
"A gun pack beneath the fuselage of a Blenheim IVF was modified by Coastal Command in January 1941 to take two Hispano 20-mm cannons. However, the normal armament in the pack was four .303-in Browning machine-guns."
It's not the regular gun pack housing a pair of 20mm Hispanos, it's custom built with cylindrical fairings for each individual Hispano. For those who are familiar with British archival photograph numbers, it's Ref: AIR 15/560. I can't tell from the angle if it's a Mk.IVf or a Mk.I (perhaps L6787).


...geoff

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Amazing how many books you can stack on top of a sturdy scanner!

Here's the photo of the twin 20mm Hispano cannon Blenheim.

This is guess-work on my part, but I think this photo (from Roy C Nesbit's book Coastal Command in Action 1939-1945, p32, Ref: AIR 15/560) is of a Blenheim Mk.I, based on the shallow depth of the gun-pack. Pictures of the Blenheim Mk.IVf's show a deeper gun-pack, required due to the deeper chin of the long-nose Blenheims. Major leap of faith, but this is possibly L6787 involved in the twin 20mm cannon trials at Martlesham Heath A&AEE.

...geoff

Re: Blenheim mk.1(F): winggun and gunpack
 

Think the images are from an early version manufactured at Southern Railway's Ashford Freight Yard. There were problems with the cartridge ejector shoots, dispensed cartridges got wedged in and weren't able to fall away freely. New drawings were done - originals held at Duxford.

Andy