Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

Fellow enthusiasts

A strange thing happened to me today at the LEMB forum today.

There I had posted additional info regarding Ju 88 H-1 (extra-long fuselage version). This was posted in a thread on a model - that had been made by a member of the LEMB forum - and in return was accused of withholding my info from a previous thread (about the Ju 88 H-1 losses, in another thread), from many weeks or months ago.

How on earth can they know, if that thread really did not start my seriously looking better into the case of the Ju 88 H-1?

The assuptions made at LEMB towards me are wrong.

My post on the matter, posted on the Ju 88 H-1 (1/48 scale) model thread, was ready only for posting today, this includes my initial configurial assesment, a referenced photo of Junkers factory drawing and a provisionary side profile (that needs details to be added, and I am still working on these). It is only presented as it is today.

As members may notice, parts of this profile appered here on this forum just before the weekend, as a reply to Ju 88 V60 colours. Since then I have added the undercarrage and periscope on cockpit.

Its not true what is implyed at, by other members at LEMB nor its editors. Besides, after this, two comments of mine, trying explaing this, were deleted! I feel insulted! Truly.

http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...=0&#entry79629

Attachment source: own profile

Therefore, in order to defend my reputation, I post this here, as there seems little or no hope of getting the message across otherwise.

I aplogize if this is offending any way to readers or editors of this forum.

Best regards
ed

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

How very childish Ed... but I'm not surprised in any way.

For the record (not that I have to my justify my actions on another forum) all that happened was that a post was moved to a more appropriate part of the forum and the disrespectful tone of the post brought to my attention. It was as simple as that folks. Any subsequent deleted posts were as a result of my asking members with issues to PM me and not post on the forum. Again, simple as that...

Kind regards
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

Now you know one of the reasons why Luftwaffe researchers and historians avoid LEMB. Thankfully, there's an alternative - here.

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

That's fine by me Larry... you and others have the freedom to choose where they post where they like. Even TOCH! has rules and regulations and if this particular format is to your liking then that is your choice.

The bottom line is that even TOCH! has rules... and if ANY member cannot be polite, then there is no place for them on the LEMB. Being rude to people that can help is of no benefit to anybody and it would be remiss of me to allow that to happen. No doubt the usual suspects will rear their heads now (the minority who've been banned or have chosen to leave) but my conscience is clear and there are members of both forums who benefit from both of them being here...

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

For the record. I personally has not got complaints from any forum moderator or controller, on the world wide web than the LEMB forum moderator(s). No so long ago I realised its chief & crew was only human and has to be forgiven to act on behalf of their friends. In my opinion, hiding behind Private Messages is no good in the long run. Resolving issues is best done in the open, so as many can learn and real progress can be made.

I do not care knowing what the motivation is behinds todays issues. There is hint of a complaint having been made. If they do not want me there anymore, then so be so, its perhaps more their loss than mine. I do not mind all that much beeing banned, its their/his choise. I respect that. The pen is mightier than the sword used to "cut out" persons or personalities. But the bottom line is, in my opinion, that there has not one has said "thank you" for the info submitted. But I only say. Thank you.

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

I have no more comment to make on Ed's ramblings other than to agree with his comment on the lack of manners prevalent amongst young and old. To complain about in on the LEMB, when it is one of my pet hates, really did make me chuckle!

Anyway, my final comment here is actually in response to Larry's strange (and incorrect) comments in post #3. The sooner some of you here, on the LEMB (and elsewhere for that matter) realise that the way forward is to embrace forums like TOCH! & LEMB, rather than complain about the way they are run, the sooner you'll not only reap the benefits of the friendships you can make (like the exchange of material between Ed & myself), but most importantly, the sooner you'll harness the immense power available via the internet...

Enjoy the rest of your weekend chaps :)

Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

Not strange at all, Peter D. E. And my comment had nothing to do directly with Ed's issue. My criticism has to do with what I see as a very wide and deep chasm with the numerous plastic modelers and zoom-zoom lovers on one side (your constituency) and the very much fewer of us who are interested in the actual history of the Luftwaffe on the other side. In other words, the many against the few. Since the war ended 66 years ago, the zoom-zooms have been done to death to the fifth exponential power and very little research done on the other 95% of the Luftwaffe, e.g., operations, strategy, organization, the Flakwaffe, the Luftnachrichtentruppe, the Bodenorganisation, etc., etc. Why? Primarily because only about 3% of the 50,000 hardcore Luftwaffe enthusiasts in the world can read elementary German. So they reply on shop-worn English language material or pick Werknummern and Kennzeichen out of documents. Nothing new is created. Nothing new is learned. So we have two Luftwaffe web sites: yours and this one. With yours focused on the 5%, it is my hope that someday this one will focus on the 95%. But that ain't a gonna happen. Meanwhile, there is no place for the researcher/historian to go, except perhaps to Axis History Forum where there is a small Luftwaffe sub-forum. The community has already lost dozens and dozens or motivated, knowledgeable researchers that we used to see here in years gone by because they tired of the same fare and lack of interest and knowledge in anything else: Werknummern, markings, fighters and who-shot-down-who. How do I know this? Because I know a lot of them and they told me so. It's really too bad.

L.

same with another forum
 

Oh I agree.. I opened up a Sonderkommando Elbe thread at another forum (wwiiaircraft.net), and promptly got banned for stating that Operation Werwulf was a direct result of the Bombing of Dresden which resulted in 25000+ civilian deaths.. some did not like that. Namely FLYBOYJ (mod) & DerAdlerIstGelandet (mod). They say it becouse argue with other members.. ha! Other 'Allied" fans can degrade, flame, post lies about the Luftwaffe and Luftwaffe supporters with no worries! I agrue against that! And get banned. Like, really? haha

Apparently they do not like hearing the truth.

Actually, if you look.. most German people get banned (@ wwiiaircraft.net). Why? becouse they have a different insight and a Language misunderstanding I think. Kurfurst comes to mind.

They say Germans bomb civilian England city first, I say by accident. I also said that technically, Poland got it first.. and BC concentrated on bombing any city, civilian or otherwise. they don't listen. Some only see all Germans as NAZI's.. Which is not true. If that was true the Waffen SS would be much much larger.

Anyways you can't win there if you like the Luftwaffe, you'll get vacation lol. But if you want excellent, honest information. Here is the place to be. Along with LEMB, put Peter is too crazy with the Me 109G-10/xxx vs the proper as he puts it Bf109G-10/xxx :D very hard for non-english speak members to get just right all the time :(

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

I think your getting your message forums mixed up Mr Oberst... as you are quite clearly aware, you were banned from the LEMB for something completely different and not as a result of anything listed in your post.

Just to add, I have nothing to do with http://wwiiaircraft.net, their policy for banning or the reasons why you were banned there. I can also categorically deny that the LEMB has ever had policy of banning Germans... to suggest otherwise, on a Luftwaffe board, is just plain ridiculous!

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

Hello Peter,

I was only talking about wwiiaircraft.net in regards to banning, not your forum. Also I know why i was banned from wwiiaircraft.net :)


I said " 25000+ civilian deaths at Dresden", even a study by the German goverment in 2006(?) said so.. much lower then the original estimates, & " Well P-51 pilots were shooting at civilians, cars, farm animals, and such. FLYBOYJ labeled both as, and I quote " Political Rhetorical Bull$hit " Which gave him every excuse under the sun to find a way to ban me for 90 days. But its A-OK to say German were doing they same.

How is the truth BS? Thats the way some roll over on that other forum I guess. Sad.

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

Do I get it right, LBB forum is also closed to researchers, except for a members fee?

Re: same with another forum
 

Oh God, here we go …

First this has rapidly ceased to be about the Ju 88 H-1.

Second, I have no problem with anyone, German or otherwise, saying something "controversial" — all they need to do is produce the evidence to back it up. That's not much to ask, is it?

Third, this thread shows all the signs of going nowhere except increasing acrimony, so cool it everyone.

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

Attached is possibly (do not know for shure) the offending (?) item (info) I am supposed to have not submitted on the Ju 88 H-1 loss thread at LEMB forum from earlier this autumn. This comment was what really made me sorry and sad.

This photo can be found in book "Junkers Ju 388" by Christoph Vernaleken and Martin Handig (Aviatic Verlag 2003) and as anybody can see has been in print and availiable for eight years. This book is written in German, but I belive a version of this can be found in English.

I have no further Ju 88 H-1 info "hidden away". I do have lots of stuff to research better, but I whish I had photo and drawings of the (one) H-2 Zerstörer. I do have a "possible hint" as to where it was possbly used, but am far from certain I am right on that.

Perhaps I will be shot now. Can I have one last whish?

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

With deep respect to all of you who are in this thread as well all of the rest members of this forum I would like to give my view on this subject. This sentences catch my eye:

I am not sure do you know me, not important at all, but in couple of last years I have published many of my profiles in various printed publications, I did not count how many but I guess that number is some around thousand of color profiles. Some numbers are also posted on various Interenet sites and forums. So what is my opinion about use and share of info.

Whether we like or not but Interenet is designated for free share of knowledge and education. If you are member of any forum or web site you must be first at all read site statement and rules and agree with them. Be sure that one of statement is that 'all content on this site is property of this site'. So all what you put there is yours but also of this site. In which way? Members and authorities of this site can move, share and manipulate with this content in the regard to their permissions and all on the site.

Where is problem? Problem could be principal, as you said, somebody did not point on the original post. This is not extreme violation but for sure it is maybe handicap for all those who could find more in original source of document.

Most important point is your signature, watermark or any other method which claim document as your property. If the watermark is there, there is not bitter problem. But there is also other way of sharing.

One way of sharing is on other sites where you are not member at all. Method of sharing could be remote linking where is original file taken from the place where you put it and displayed on another place. Other way is more complex when your file is stored on another server, not stored by you and displayed on other site. In this way you have rights to react but again, if your signature is preserved on file, there is maybe no need for that. Think about that your file is used for informations and education.

I run few web sites and from time to time I jump into control panel and analyze traffic. In many cases I found that many files are shared on other sites, remote or direct store on their servers. All known cases shown that files are used to promote discussion, provide info and make benefit to particular membership. No issue have been found that any of them was used in any violent way (like stored for sale).

I will specially point few cases where is my art works displayed on E-bay and used for promotion of the owner of page to sell its products. This is also not problem for me, I am glad that my material can help to highlight owners own products and make income. It is hard economical times so why not to allow somebody to make more money and feed his family.

There is only one case where is my art used in not proper way, watermark is removed and used without it. But this site is not worth mention so I did not react at all.

So it is only my opinion and experience. I do not expect that anybody will agree with me. To conclude I will give few pints about use of somebody authors work:

- permission of author
- included full data of source with full name and direct link
- few words with thanks to author for his kind permission

But if this miss but your metadata is still on file... maybe no need to be angree.

It is just me...

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

Hi Srecko, I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick. It has nothing to do with copyright of images or ownership of information.

A guy came on to LEMB asking for help on how to accurately build a model of a Ju88H-1. We had lots of discussions and helpful posts over a period of time on how this particular machine might have looked and the guy was really appreciative and happy with the info. He then goes off and builds his model. He is dead chuffed with his creation, he makes a special topic showing us all of the photos of the model even gets his son to help him upload the photos because of his limited computer knowledge. All is well, with a nice happy outcome. Then Ed finally jumps onto the topic to tell the poor guy that his model is completely wrong and that he should have known that some obscure German language book on the Ju388 that Ed has known about all along, had all the answers he would have needed. Why on earth Ed could not have posted this information earlier for this guy but waited until the model was finished to then shoot it down in a condescending and arrogant manner (Classic Ed North language) is beyond me and totally uncalled for. This incident is far from the first where Ed has been asked very nicely and warned to tone down the way he publicly tries to humiliate members. It was out of order and just not needed. Ed I think you know the instances that could be brought up if you want to continue this public outburst. Just drop it, it's getting boring and we wish you well with your research in the future. :)

Re: Ju 88 H-1 info and strange editing practice at LEMB forum.
 

We will now stop refighting battles that have ended elsewhere. Any attempt to explain what happened, however well-intentioned, is guaranteed to upset someone and we'll be into a spiral of increasingly angry posts.

Been there, done that, it made no one any happier.

*THIS THREAD IS CLOSED*