The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Hello,

I'm trying to do the overall layout for Ju88 profiles for the EOE Project. According to P. 125 of the de Zeng and Stankey book, "Bomber Units of the Luftwaffe 19339-1945," Vol I, the Zerstörerstaffel/KG30 was equipped with Ju88C-2 and existed from Feb to mid-July, 1940, whereupon it became 4./NJG1.

They have listed a plane loss to this unit at Björnfjell, Norway, on June 7, 1940. There are 3 views of this crash in the EOE photo DB, one of which appears to show the code of the crashed plane as: 4D+MH. Our EOE Luft DB entry so records it:

June, 7, 1940: 1.(Z)/KG30 Junkers Ju88C-1 (0142). One engine damaged by Swedish AA fire during low-level attack on ore railway and belly-landed near Björnfjell. Crew believed unhurt. Aircraft 4D+MH 100% write-off.

Reinforcing the correctness of this code, there was a recent Ju88 photo auctioned on eBay that showed a Ju88, probably the same a/c, clearly carrying the code 4D+MH. It was noted as being probably photographed at Stavanger AF, Norway.

This identity is also reported at Kjell Sorensen's excellent website, which shows a number of views of this a/c:

http://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/bjornefjell.html

However, the dZ & S book reports that the plane codes for a/c of that unit were 4D+_U, which doesn't match either the crash photo, Kjell's website or our loss list.

My questions:

1) Can anyone resolve the anomaly about the a/c codes:4D+MH, vice 4D+_U? Were these aircraft all coded as 1 Staffel a/c, ie 4D+_H? If 4D+_H turns out to be right, does this mean that the ZStaffel a/c served under 1./KG30, rather than a separate Zerstörerstaffel?

2) Does anyone know who the crew was for the crashed a/c? Kjell's website states that one crewman from this a/c was injured, so, if this is accurate, there should be an NVM on this crash. Does anyone have this info? Matti?

3) If this is a C-2, this should have the extended wingtips of the A-5 version. Does anyone have a photo that confirms the extended A-5 type wingtips on the crashed a/c, confirming it as a C-2 rather than a C-1?

4) The photos of the crashed 4D+MH clearly show that KG30 diving eagle insignia was NOT painted on the nose of this a/c. Are there any other Ju88C photos from this Zest unit that do indicate that others carried a KG30 unit insignia?

5) I'm also looking for photos showing an a/c of this unit during the May, 1940 period. Can anyone direct me to a source for same?

Want to get this right.

Thanx,

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Well, this thread threw me into a flurry of activity. Where I got the idea that the unit code was (4D+ _U) is lost in the 11 years since I wrote that part of our book. I can find no evidence for a specific code for ZSt./KG 30. However, it is clear that the aircraft in question was definitely coded (4D+FH). How do I know? The book "Aero Detail 20 - Junkers Ju 88" has beautiful clear colour photos of the salvaged wreck clearly showing this code. No doubt about it. Also semi-visible are limited details of the "splinter" camouflage pattern which may aid in making your profile. Contemporary photos of the wreck from various angles show no insignia at all.

I suggest that you obtain a copy of the Aero Detail 20 book (it is one of those Japanese/English productions) as it has scads of detail views of Ju 88s, showing the differences in the types.

There are some nice shots of the undersides of the wings showing the coding and the wingtips are of the A-5 type. The canopy is A-5 like also.



Hoping this helps....


DGS

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Doug,

Great help. Thanks! I'll see where I can find a copy of that "Aero Detail 20 Junkers Ju88" publication. If anyone knows where a copy of this can be ordered, please let me know.

Warm regards and thanks for all the help you've given me this past year!

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

According to what I have, they used the code 4D+*H. Jeschke & Semrau flew BH, Lauffs LH, Pack flew SH & PH, Kretschmer flew FH, Wiesmann possibly flew GH and Boensch NH. Although I cannot confirm it for sure, I have the Bjorfjell crash as being a C-1, Wk Nr 0142 and the pilot Uffz Heinz Strüning

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

humm.. Doug. Sorry to rattle you on this. Not A-5 (long wings).

Aero detail No 20. clearly show A-1 (short) wings for 4D+FH (that was 0133), BTW, C-2 had long wings (according Luftwaffe sources). Larry was asking of 0142 4D+MH, that was another wreck, not salvaged.

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Larry,

Your PM area is full.

Peter

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Chris,

You and Doug have gone a long way towards answering most of my questions. A terrific response! Thanks for this detail.

Are the pilot/plane identifications based upon FB entries or is there a surviving KTB for this unit during the spring, 1940 period? Do photos exist of any of these other aircraft during this period?

Can anyone else confirm that Uffz Heinz Strüning was the pilot of the crashed 4D+MH, as Chris proposes? The salvaged a/c is 4D+FH, and, as Ed North has just posted, my original question is about 4D+MH. Is this a C-1 (short wings like the A-1) or a C-2 (extended wings like the A-5)?

Since the Ju88Cs of this unit all apparently carried 1 Staffel coding, does this mean that they flew as part of 1./KG30, or did they operate as a separate unit? How did this work?

Regards,

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Larry

I am afraid the answers to your questions are not as far as I am aware. I was in touch with the Grandson of Weimann and of course Riegel but they had nothing. According to Riegel they were called Zerst. Staffel/KG 30. From what I have found out they were initally subordinate to I/KG 30 but then I/ZG 76 (at least the NVMs were signed off by Restemeyer) and then Stab/KG 30

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Hello,

Thanks to Peter Landh, I was able to find a website where I could download a PDF copy of Aero Detail #20; Ju88. This and Kjell's Noway wrecks website have allowed me to conclude that 4D+FH is a suitable candidate for the May, 1940 Ju88C profile. So, between 4D+FH (May 10th) and 4D+MH (June 7th), I think that I've got what I need. Neither of these a/c carried the KG30 "Diving Eagle" unit insignia, which makes me think that this probably did not appear on the (Z)./KG30 Ju88s, during their fairly limited period of service with KG30. When this unit became 4./NJG 1 on or about 20.7.40, did that unit continue to fly the Ju88C, at least through the end of the year?

The only thing that I'm still confused about is the difference between a C-1 and a C-2, and which version these two a/c represent. The way I understand the wingtip differences, which are clearly shown in the Aero Detail publication, 4D+FH should be a C-1. I'm still not clear which version 4D+MH was, as I have no photo that clearly shows the wingtips and outer wing flaps.

Thanks for the excellent help so far.

Regards,

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Larry, there is a list entitled '5_NJG2 machine.doc' as one of the documents I sent you some time ago. This list includes many of the early losses from the Z. Gruppe KG 30 prior to the unit being re-assigned to NJG 2. I think the originator of this list is Bernd Barbas.

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

the difference between C1 and C2
the C1 and C3 versions never entered production. the C2 camewith an armement of 5 barreled guns.In this version the underwing dive brakes were removed together with the etc bomb racks .The C2 feature a new nose in metal sheet at the root of the new nose cap was mounted an armoured bulkhead of a 11mm with a cutout for those armement .The C2 was powered by jumo 211B or G just like its A1 versions .Optional flame dumpers were mounted for night ops.The ventral bomb bays were retained,but the forward bay usualy contained an auxiliary fuel tank with some 316 gallon cap.Kampfgeschwader 30 was the first unit to receive the new fighter in spring of 1940.This unit based in Norway was organized with a special destroyer squadron (zertorerstaffel)wich had good results with this airplane in coastal patrol and anti-shipping missions.Following the night-fighting emergency program of 1940 some crews of the Z-staffel/KG30 were transfered to germany for non-fighting training in june .Later these crews formed part of II/NJG1 based in holland, its stab being established at Gilze-Rijen.This special unit was the only night intruder unit in the Luftwaffe and was very successful while using the ju88 the C2 version was produced till Autumm of 1941.

ju88Z exV7 1939 bomber adaption
ju88Z15 exV15 1940 metal nosecap
ju88Z19 exV19 1940 metal nosecap

hopefully this helps
cheers
phil

Photo of Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j213/odybvig/ju88.jpg

Best from Norway

Re: Photo of Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Based on Rechlin E2b document, Erpr.1713, the only real difference between the Ju 88 C-1 and C-2 was that the C-2 had long span wings. The C-4 had provision for an Rb 50/30 between Spant 17 and 18, but apparently was otherwise the same as a C-2. As for the C-1 never being produced, my memory is that at least one was built. Also, if my memory has not failed me, I have some images of a short wing Ju 88 fighter version with 4 bladed props. The caveat is that apparently none of the early Ju 88 Cs came out of final assembly as fighters, they were afterwards converted to fighters. They thus show up in the totals for Ju 88 bombers (as opposed to AufKlarer(sic-sorry, no umlauts)). The Monatsmeldung for June 1940 shows 9 Ju "C"s completed by that month and does also have an entry for C-1).

Best Regards,

Artie Bob

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Hi Larry,
Question #4:
Photos of the unit’s Ju 88C with emblems are scarce but I believe the eBay photo below proves that at least some carried the emblem at some point in time. The Ju 88C is coded 4D+D?. The Staffel letter is difficult to make out but it could be an ‘H’. There is no information on where and when the photo was taken though.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...x_emblem_1.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...emblem_1-2.jpg

Source old eBay auction.

Question #5
Here is a photo of Ju 88C 4D+NH and 4D+HH I believe is taken in Norway in 1940
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3..._xDNHandHH.jpg
Source eBay 2007-08-12

The photo posted by Ole in post #12 is from Stavanger-Sola if to believe Knut Maesel on page 105 in the book ‘Ni Dager I April. Luftkampene over Norge 1940, Exlibris A/S, 1990.

Br
Goran

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Hello,

Great info/photos. Thanks to all. The factory markings of the Ju88Cs in the photo from "odybvig" were probably photographed during the initial equipping of the unit in Norway circa late April/early May, 1940. The markings on the Ju88C-1s in Goran's photo of 4D+NH & 4D+HH are entirely consistent with the Norway crashes of 4D+FH (10.05.40) and 4D+MH (07.06.40). That dates his photo during that approximate time window. The codes on all four of these aircraft were black, and there was no KG30 "diving eagle" insignia on the noses. All of these appear to me to be Ju88C-1 short wing subtypes. Besides these we now have information or photos on a/c coded +DH(?), +GH, +LH, +PH and + SH, giving us a total of nine identified a/c from the Z Staffel of KG30. Chris Goss says that +NH was flown by Bönsch, can anyone provide his full name and rank during this period?

The problem is Goran's photo of the two Ju88Cs (can't tell the subtypes: C-1s or C-2s?), with the white KG30 diving eagle insignia on the noses, and the nearest carrying the a/c letter "D" in a non-black color, thinly outlined in white. Based on the photos of the two crashes in Norway, this leaves us only a very limited period from 07.06.40 to 07.07.40 for the unit's a/c to display this new markings pattern. The Z St. of KG30 became 4./NJG1 on the latter date, which would have required a change in the a/c markings. I propose that the addition of the KG30 insignia and the change in the color and presentation of the individual a/c letter, "D", both happened at the same time, and that this occurred during this very limited one-month time window. I also propose that the "D" was painted in blue, with a thin white outline. This is the same system used on Bf110Cs of 1./ZG1 during this same time period, which carried over to its new unit 1./ErprGr210.

Regarding the C-1 versus C-2 question, Ed North has written me that the "long wingtips were only put into production in June, 1940." I conclude from this that Z St./KG30 probably didn't have any a/c with long wings, and thus no C-2s, if wing length was the distinction between the C-1 (A-1 type) and the C-2 (A-5 type). I think that this is also consistent with what Artie Bob reports in the post above, if I understand his point correctly. I guess it matters when the first C-2s began reached operational units, which would most likely be in early July, about the time that Z St./KG30 became 4./NJG1.

Does anyone have any more evidence (especially photos) to the contrary, or can provide more images and info on this unit? Artie Bob, I'd dearly love to see the photos of Ju88Cs with four-bladed props that you mention. Would you be willing to either post them or send me a copy via direct email?

Regards,

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Olt Herbert Bönsch.

Matti

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Thanks for your comments on the two photos I've posted Larry :) Here is another which I believe is from Norway of Ju88C 4D+??

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...Norwayperh.jpg
Soure: old eBay auction
Br
Goran

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

The Ju 88C-2 was produced in a quantity of 20 aircraft; 9 in June 1940 followed by 10 in July and the last one in August.
It had an armament as day destroyer of:
Fixed in the nose: 1 x MG 15, 3 x MG 17 and 1 x MG "FF"
Ventral position: 1 x MG 15
Rear cockpit: 1 x MG 15
As a night destroyer: an addititional 2 x MG "FF" in a ventral gondola.
The C-2 also had the extended wings and Jumo 211B or G engines.
Unfortunately, I have no precise data about the C-1 production if any at all. However, Ju 88C versions were used during the campaign in Norway so there were possibly conversions as A-0 or A-1 made provisionally.

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Matti, Goren & Seaplanes:

Thanks for further info and details. Much appreciated.

1) Regarding Bönsch, Ulf Balke in Vol I of "Der Luftkrieg in Europa" lists him as the StaKap of Z. St./KG30 as of 10.05.40.

2) As of that date, the unit was authorized 15 Ju88Cs, but only had five on hand, of which one would have been 4D+FH, which crash landed and was written off in Norway that day. This bears on the issue of how many Ju88C-1s were produced, and if there was more than one or two. Since the C-2 didn't begin coming off the assembly lines until sometime in June, all Ju88Cs assigned to Z.St./KG30 prior to that period had to have been C-1s, which means a minimum of five and probably at least several more through the end of May and into early June, 1940, which would have been the earliest possible date that any C-2s could have arrived at the unit, assuming that German records on production of the subtype are correct.

Does anyone have any further strength reports for Z. St./KG30 after May 10th, especially on June 1st and July 1st, 1940. This info should exist.

I'm trying to get at a determination of whether the photo (4D+DH) that Goran posted above was a C-1 or could have been a C-2, as that is the second profile that I want to use for this unit for the EOE book series. It looks like it has the clipped wing of a C-1. Are we in agreement on this? This means I will use 4D+FH for the first one (representing the period for May, 1940), and 4D+DH for the period June, 1940, and displaying the later markings used by the unit. Does anyone disagree with that?

It would be nice to know how many total Cs served with the Zerstörer Staffel during its brief existence, and if any C-2s actually reached the unit before it became a nightfighter unit, but that isn't essential for the profile part of the EOE Project. However, that might help resolve the issue of how many Ju88s were actually produced in the C-1, short wing configuration. Do production records exist for the C subtype during April and May, 1940?

Strenght reports for Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

15.2.40 (Aufgestellt)
0 Aircrafts (Ju 88)

13 crews planned
Crew not trained on Ju 88 (16.3.40)

26.3.40
3 Aircraft received

13 crews planned
Not all crew trained on Ju 88

2.4.40
4 Aircrafts, none ready

13 crews , not ready

Aircraft tested by Prüfgruppe der staffel

9.4.40
Unit is planned to have 15 aircrafts
6 Aircrafts, not ready

12 crews , not ready

11.4.40 One aircraft lost
12.4.40 One aircraft lost with 3 crew dead
16.4.40 One aircraft lost
30.4.40 One aircraft lost
5.5. - 11.5.40 One aircraft lost 3 crew MIA
2.6. - 8.6.40 One aircraft lost

16.4.40
2 Aircrafts ready
5 Aircrafts not ready

7 crews ready

23.4.40
2 Aircrafts ready
5 Aircrafts not ready

7 crews ready

30.4.40
7 Aircrafts ready

7 crews ready

7.5.40
5 Aircrafts ready
10 Aircrafts not ready

12 crews ready
2 crews not ready

14.5.40
4 Aircrafts ready
1 Aircraft not ready

5 crews ready

21.5.40
4 Aircrafts ready
1 Aircraft not ready

5 crews ready

28.5.40
2 Aircrafts ready Ju 88
4 Aircrafts ready Bf 110
8 Aircrafts not ready Ju 88
1 Aircrafts not ready Bf 110

10 crews ready

4.6.40
4 Aircrafts ready Ju 88
4 Aircrafts ready Bf 110
5 Aircrafts not ready Ju 88
1 Aircrafts not ready Bf 110

10 crews ready
1 crew not ready

11.6.40
8 Aircrafts ready Ju 88
6 Aircrafts not ready Ju 88

13 crews ready
2 crew not ready

18.6.40
5 Aircrafts ready Ju 88
7 Aircrafts not ready Ju 88

10 crews ready
5 crew not ready

2.7.40
9 Aircrafts ready Ju 88
6 Aircrafts not ready Ju 88

10 crews ready

9.7.40
5 Aircrafts ready Ju 88
4 Aircrafts not ready Ju 88

8 crews ready

16.7.40
4 Aircrafts ready Ju 88
8 Aircrafts not ready Ju 88

10 crews ready
2 crews not ready

23.7.40

Z.St.KG 30 renamed II./N.J.G 1 with 2 staffeln Ju 88 and one staffel Do 17 Z Kauz

Source
RL 2 III 706
RL 2 III 707
RL 2 III 708

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Odybvig,

This is very helpful information, but now you've thrown me a big curveball (a term from American baseball). It appears that the Z.St. of KG30 had Bf110s, which I didn't know. Does anyone have any photos of these aircraft in codes for KG30 or info on pilots, W.Nr., victory claims, etc? Did any of these a/c carry the KG30 "diving eagle" insignia on the forward fuselage? I don't ever recall seeing a photo of a Bf110 with this insignia on it.

Regards,

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

diving eagle? is it the emblem of NJG you mean ?
diving eagle between a red V?

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Here is another image of a Ju 88 C. You can see the weapons and it still has a partial glass nose. Is this a C-1?

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

According to RL 3-2685 Baureihenzusammenstellung der in der Luftwaffe eingeführten und in Einführung begriffenen Flugzeugmuster from 1 november 1942

Ju 88 C-1:
wie A-1
jedoch
Besatzung 3 mann
Bewaffnung: A Stand 1 MG 15, 3 MG 17 und 1 MG 151 (starr kanzel)
A und B stand 1 MG 15
Ohne Sturtzfluganlage

Ju 88 C-2
wie C-1
jedoch
Tragwerk: Spannweitenvergrösserung
Triebwerk: Jumo 211 B u. G
Bewaffnung:
Tagzerstörer MG FF statt 151
Nachtzertörer 2 MG FF statt MG 151


Best from Norway
Olve Dybvig

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

According to Peter C, Z.St/KG 30 also had Do 17 M-1s-Oblt Gerhard von Grothe and Uffz Franz Zipfel were killed in an accident at Greifswald in one on 31 Mar 40

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

Norbert:

This is a short winged Ju88, with the flaps going all the way to the wingtips, so it is either an A-1 or a C-1. It doesn't have a solid nose, but perhaps some of the earliest C-1s didn't have a solid nose, since they were apparently converted on the production line from A-1s. This could be one of the prototypes for the subtype. Someone else will probably know if this is an A-1 or a C-1.

Regards,

Re: The Ju88C-equipped Zerstörerstaffel of KG 30 during 1940
 

April 1941.

Junker