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Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
1 Attachment(s)
Marc,
thanks again for this impressive link to very great pics. This one especially may be of note. Never seen before a He 111 with a (obviously) Lichtenstein SN 2... Attachment 6719 Cheers Norbert |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Sehr gerne Nordpol54!
My pleasure! I added for the sake of completeness both pics of He 111 H DJ+CW in this thread too. The Schleissheim Versuchsverband had definitely an interesting collection of planes Cheers Marc |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Bonjour Marc,
Nice scan of known planes... TS+MB is not a StKz Marc :p. but something like Technische Schüle etc.... there is a thread some where about that in these columns (TOCH). Tschüss, Franck. PS: And yes you're right about Schlessheim ... except I did kept them in "München-Schlessheim" column...! |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Salut Franck,
OF course, you're right: all the Bf 109's and Fw 190's belonged to the Technische Schule Motor based in München - Schleissheim, hence the codes TS+MA (Fw 190) and TS+MB (Bf 109). Hideki Noro publishes 15 more pics from the airframes found at München - Schleissheim, which in April 1945 also hosted the Ju 88 G-6 of I./NJG 6: Noro, H. 2009: LO+ST. Snapshots of the wrecked/captured Luftwaffe aircraft taken by G.I.s from 1944 to the defeat of Germany, Dainippon Kaiga, p. 88 - 96. Cheers Marc |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
FW190 TS+MA - WerkNr. (?)5753
Regards - Rainer |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Thanks Rainer!
Knowing the Fw 190 W.Nr. blocks, any guess as to the full W.Nr.? Cheers Marc |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Quote:
Hi, Marc-André according to Andrew Arthy´s "Bookies´s Fw 190 Page" (Check out link below) "The FW190 WERK NUMMER PROJEKT" http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/werkn.doc I would say that it is an A-4 U8 (14-5753) Because if I´m not wrong she must be in this Nr.Block : 014(5531) – 014(5844) Arado, Warnemünde Regards - Rainer |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Wow Marc, what a nice belated christmas gift :) I am not at my sources right now, but I will cross-check in a few days and see whether I can add something then.
Regards, Christian |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Great source Rainer, I didn't know it; many many thanks!
Hallo Christian, looking forward for your addends! I checked already those pics against the 15 published by Noro, but guess what? All different.... There was really a huge bunch of Bf 109's out there... Cheers Marc |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Hi again, Marc
just I checked this file again - a (reading) mistake by me. Only Werk.Nr. 0145 805 - 0145 844 are A-4/U8. So 5753 must be a normal A-4. Cheers - Rainer ;) |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
I have another photo of the FW 190A-4 WNr. 5753, and if I could remember how to post it I would (commonly refered to as 'old fart's disease', referring to the memory thing). The location given for this other photo is Bayreuth-Bindlach.
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Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Well, finally some additions (and questions):
1. Fw 190 "TS+MA" in this collection isn't the same a/c as the one from Bayreuth-Bindlach, even though it looks nearly exactly identical. Our "TS+MA" here is still placed in its forest refuge and features a rather battered paintwork, while the a/c from Bayreuth looks much more intact, even though it has already been pulled out to the collecting point. As all the other identifiable airfield photos here are from Schleißheim, I guess our "TS+MA" was found there too. Regarding Werknummer 5753: This info was mentioned in the old Luftwaffe Verband magazine, issue 32, accompanying a small photo of the Bayreuth plane (Crow collection). There is an additional picture of the Bayreuth plane in (IIRC) Merrick's Luftwaffe camouflage book, vol.2. However, the Werknummer 5753 isn't visible in both photos, so I don't know where this information comes from. Perhaps it's readable in one of the original shots or it's mentioned in some airfield inspection report. 2. We now also have two photos of early Bf 110s wearing the TS+M./MB code. One with an earlier style fuselage cross, parked in a hangar and published in Luftwaffe Verband magazine 33 (location given as "north of Munich", so perhaps Schleißheim or Oberwiesenfeld), and the one from this picasa collection. Interesting. Are more photos of those planes known? 3. When enlarged, the Bf 109 to the left in this photo: https://picasaweb.google.com/brianka...50052181644978 seems to feature a black fuselage Balkenkreuz. Very rare too. Perhaps an italian plane? 4. Not that interesting, but an oddity too: When comparing the following two photos: https://picasaweb.google.com/brianka...50086852498354, https://picasaweb.google.com/brianka...49930908778226 to this one http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...ftaufnahme.jpg one can identify a Bf 110 coded "2.+CZ". I guess the full code is "2Z+CZ" and it's is a former plane of 15./NJG 6, probably later transferred to 16. or Stabstaffel/NJG 6, when the earlier unit was disbanded. Is that a small overpainted emblem on the forward fuselage? Did NJG 6 or it's V. Gruppe use anything like that? Regards, Christian |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
The photo I have of the FW 190 'TS+MA' specifically says WNr. 5753 and notes in the photo caption on the back that the WNr. is forward of the cockpit versus on the tail (though I can't see it, which probably has more to do with the quality of the print), and that the location is Bayreuth-Bindlach. This is likely the same photo from the Crow collection that you mention. The original source is written as Saied, who is probably the G.I. Jim got it from. FYI - Jim Crow's method of collecting much of his stuff was from contacting U.S. vets directly. When I first connected with him he asked me for any phone books I might have for where I live. A very novel and enterprising method of tracking these guys down if I must say. This guy's collection is amazing.
As to your point #4, I do have a few losses attributed to V./NJG 6 with at least one code ending with 'Z'. Bf 110E-2, 2652, Fick, Uffz. Walter, , V., 15., NJG 6, , 2Z+DZ, , , 09-Aug-43, Crew killed in crash., 9/10-Aug per Balss., Lw.Bfh.Mitte/Nachtjagd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #11)-Vol.20; Balss, Deutsche Nachtjagd, p.116; Kock, Das Kriegstagebuch des NJG6, p.9, , bei Weidach, südlich Echterdingen, 100%, H, Bf Uffz. Oskar Neu, , |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Hi folks, I had too much time at hand and created a little overview of the planes gathered at the Schleissheim collecting point. I looked up any photo I could find in various print and online sources and created the following list. Special thanks go to Marc-André Haldimann and Kees Mol, which provided some very useful material.
The aerial photo originates from some old ebay auction. It depicts the southern part of Schleissheim airfield, the A99 highway nowadays crosses its bottom edge. Additional aircraft were still dispersed in the Hartelholz (a forest south of the airfield), but those were not taken into account here. http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...nummeriert.jpg 1 Ju 88 ? 2 Ju 88 G-6 3 Ju 88 G-6, 621619, 2Z+IH 4 Ju 88 G-6, 622492, 2Z+EH 5 Bf 110, 2?+CZ, without FuG-antennas 6 Ju 88 C, ??+?? 7 Me 410, 11015, SI+KW, dark Balkenkreuze 8 Bf 110 G, ??+?V 9 Ju 88, ??+VY, with FuG-antennas 10 He 111 H-6, 7335, DJ+CW, with FuG-antennas 11 Ju 88 G-1, ??+CT 12 Bf 110 G, ??+GZ 13 Bf 110 G, 740066 (?), ?Z+KV 14 Bf 110 G 15 Ju 88 G-6, 2Z+HH 16 Bf 110 G, 180409 ??+FR 17 Ju 88 G, 6209??, 2Z+FH 18 Ju 88 G, 621437, 2Z+AH 19 Ju 88 G-6, ??+DH 20 Bf 109, black fuselage Balkenkreuz ? 21 Bf 109 K, seems to be unmarked 22 Bf 109 23 Fw 190, unmarked, torpedo trial plane 24 Bf 109 G, early tail unit, TS+MB 25 Bf 109 K-4, 332579, 15+~, black (?) fuselage band, JG 53 26 Bf 109 F-4, TS+MB (small) 27 Bf 109 F or early G, TS+MB (small) 28 Bf 109 G, early tail unit, 2+ (overpainted Balkenkreuz+Hakenkreuz) 29 Bf 109 G, early tail unit, TS+MB (small) 30 Bf 109 G, early tail unit, TS+MB 31 Bf 109 G, late tail unit, TS+MB (light colored cowling) 32 Bf 109, F or early G, TS+MB (resting on fuel tank) 33 Bf 110 G, ??+AS 34 Bf 109 G or K, late tail unit, TS+MB 35 Bf 110 G, 740144, ??+DZ 36 Bf 110, NO+F? or NQ+F? 37 Ar 96 B-7, 450316, PO+FT, 18 I on tailplane 38 Bf 109, TS+MB (not in the aerial shot, but visible in many others) Please don't confuse the shadow of the B-17 overflying the airfield with my meagre aircraft renditions done with MS Paint. But in any case feel free to add anything here! Regards, Christian BTW: Bf 110 #16 features without any doubt the Werknummer 180409 (see post #1 in this thread). However, according to Stammkennzeichen.de this should be a Ju 188 A-2 from Siebel production. Any clues? |
Re: Schleissheim 1945 pictures
Hallo Christian,
Great work you did there; it is precious to see on which space which plane was gathered. Much appreciated; it'll be useful for all new emerging pics. As for your W.Nr., this occurrence remind me the one of Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. "262818" painted on its tailplane though it's true W.Nr., found on the manufacturing plates, was 462818... http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625539886908 http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625539886908/ Cheers Marc |
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