Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

On another run, I chanced on this picture of Bf 109 G-5 (?) "Schwarze J", said to be the mount of pilot Otfried Baischs, member of the Erla Luftschutz Staffel.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625707737498

Are those informations correct ? It's the first time I come across this unit. I would be most interested to hear more about it, and, if possible, about this particular machine.

Thanks in advance
Marc

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

No ... according J.Prien the "J" belonged to 2./ JG 25 and the picture was taken probably on Gardelegen and not in or around Leipzig.

The so-called "Erla Luftschutz Staffel" was the "Jagdstaffel Erla" or "Einsatzstaffel Erla" (IIRC - at the moment my docs are not available), an simple unit to protect the Erla factories in an around Leipzig (like units for Focke Wulf, Messerschmitt or Fieseler).

Regards
Rasmussen

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Hallo Jörg,

Thanks for your information. You mean 2./JG 52? And how come they used letters instead of numerals?

Thanks in advance
Marc

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

No ... I mean JG 25. Have a look in JFV 10/III, p.63 - 73, from J.Prien. there you find an short overview of this unit (history, commander, losses, ...).

regards
Rasmussen

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Thanks a lot, Rasmüssen!

Never heard of that unit too... Off to order the JFV's serie...

Thanks again
Marc

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Hi Guys

I have Otfried Baisch a Feldwebel with 12./JG3, he was with this unit from no later than 13th April 1944 when he claimed a B-17, until 18th July 1944 when he claimed another B-17 and was himself killed!

Don't know if he was with another unit previous to this.

But Industrie Staffel Erla had at least ten claims confirmed between 14th October 1943(Fw Wolf) and 28th July 1944(Ace Lt Gerhard Gleuwitz from JG52). I assume the Staffelkapitän was Hauptmann Ernst Laube who claimed his 9th-11th victories with them on 6th March 1944(3xMustangs). Coincidently Bernd Barbas bumped into him a few days ago, he's ninety-five now and his eyes and legs are just starting to fail him.

With JG25 I can find only two confirmed claims. One for an Unteroffizier Zimacker for a B-17 on 14th October 1943, and one Lightning for Oberstleutnant Herbert Ihlefeld(his 111th)on 13th November 1943. The unit must have been short-lived, but bigger than Industrie Staffel Erla as Zimacker's was with the 2nd Staffel, and Ihlefeld's with the Stabst Staffel.

Don't have any claims for Baisch with these units, but have several unidentified claims for Industrie Staffel Erla, one being for a name I cannot identify, but it's a Feldwebel(as Baisch was) and the name is something like "Lensch" or "Densch" but could very well be Baisch, date was 20th February 1944 for a B-17, I will re-check the micro films on this one, it's easier to work-out a name if you know what your looking for, and without any losses for either of these units it's given me something to check again.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Hello,

Thanks for the picture Marc. That's the first time I understand what David did try to explain me about G-5 particularities!!!

http://www.ww2.dk/ says JG 25 became Jagdstaffel Erla on 12/43, so ??...

Regards, Franck.

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Hallo Johannes,

Thanks very much for your detailed informations regarding Otfried Baisch and, on the other hand the Industrie Staffel Erla; they are very helpful, as for JG 25.

My issue now is to identify clearly the plane and pilot depicted on the photograph found ant asiabiz.com. Unfortunately, their sources are never quoted and I'm thus unable to cross check the reference (s). the fact this machine carries a letter instead of a number as tactical marking surprises me for a fighter unit.

MY questions are now narrowed to those two:

- Which fighter unit did carry tactical letters?
- Is it possible to confirm the pilot's identity?

thanks again
Marc

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Other than JG or JGr. 25, I have at least one recorded loss from IV./JG 3 (E + ~) with a letter as a tactical code in my 109 file. For 190s, there is of course the Stab of JG 26 (S, He, G, P, B & VH at least are documented) and at least one 4./JG 54 machine (D +).

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Thanks Jim,

for your input; what was the reason behind this odd way of marking fighters?

Cheers
Marc

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Hallo Marc-Andre

Sorry, but I know next to nothing about aircraft marking. However I did check the name I thought could be Baisch, and am 99.9% certain it is not, I would say the name is "Leusch"....that's reading through the scrawl.

Kind Regards

Johannes

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Hi.

I guess this unit existed in various guises namewise over time.

In February 1944 I have references to Einsatzstaffel Erla, unfortunately no references to tactical codes for these incidents.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Wasn't Hans Fay a member of this unit when he shot down Spitfire IX,EN 131, 315 RAF Sq,
on May 4,1943? F/L Lipinsky was KIA.

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

No ... he was an member of "Alarmstaffel Erla" but in Antwerpen not in Leipzig.

Best regards
Rasmussen

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Johannes,

Thanks for your time anyway!

Andreas, Kaki3152, thanks for your references, and Jörg, four your precisions. How many planes did theses "Alarmstaffeln" or "Einsatzstaffeln" have?

Were the Werkspiloten their usual pilots?
Are there any pictures of the Alarmstaffel Erla machines known?

As a side note, I just posted two pictures taken in the Spring of 1944 at Erla VII and at Antwerp- Deurne airfield, depicting Erla built or retrofitted Bf 109 G-6's; one of the is in the W.Nr. 410 xxx range as can be discerned on the photograph:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Thanks in advance
Marc

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Hi

personnaly I don't know too much about units, but there was a Industrie Staffel.focke.wulfe.....I think possible erla and Focke.Wulfe were a maximum of a Staffel, JGr.25 possibly a Gruppe.

Regards

Johannes

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

No idea unfortunately. BTW, I saw the Stab/JG 26 machine coded 'VH' (Viktor Hilgendorf) many years ago on a neat piece of motion picture film and haven't seen it anywhere since. Does anyone else recall seeing this and know where it might be found? Back then the technology for doing screen captures from film or VHS tape didn't exist, or having access to that type of software was very expensive. It would be a piece of cake now, and I'd love to capture some stills.

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Hi Marc, Hi All,

Got the answer to your first question:
The photo - and it's caption! - comes from Jet&Prop, Foto-Archiv Band 13, Page 30.
I give you the entire caption:
" 44) Diese Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-5 gehörte zur Erla-Werkschutzstaffel. Die "Schwarze J" wurde von Feldwebel Otfried Baisch geflogen. Er fiel am 18.Juli 1944 bei der IV./JG 3.
Sammlung Lärcher".

Hope it helps.

Tschüss, Franck.

Re: Erla Luftschutz Staffel
 

Hi gents,

Found that photo this morning.
I thought it was the opportunity to re-open this thread.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/WW5-Me-Bf109-...item2edda4d58f

Is somebody able to read photo's backside?

Regards, Franck.